The hospital that I work at recently started a website just for employees, so we are able to sign in from home and check our email, etc. They just sent out a memo saying that now the mandatory education requirements we have to do yearly are going to be on the same portal, available for us to do at home. In the past, we have always done these requirements at work while being paid. I feel this is something we should be paid for while we are completing them, (they are quite long--some take over an hour to do, and there are probably 10-15 of them required per year) and I don't think we should be able to do them from home. It is difficult to complete them at work (in the past I have always come in early or stayed late to complete them, since we don't have a lot of downtime on our med/surg floor) and so we are being encouraged to complete these at home 'at our leisure.' I feel like this is basically encouraging/asking us to work at home for free! I don't appreciate it one bit, and if my co-workers are willing to do them from home on their own time, that's fine for them but I will continue to do them at work, on the clock, since I consider it work!! I don't like my hospital putting it's employees in this position. Has anyone else had the same experience? What do you think?
I will agree with what others have said. Mandatory education requirements are NOT the same thing as CEU's. They do not make you more marketable - they are usually JCAHO/state requirements. They are really for the benefit of the facility more than the nurse - the facility must prove upon request that their staff have met these requirements (med administration, fire safety, COBRA, etc.)
My hospital (non-union) pays for everything work-related. Staff meetings, committee meetings, JCAHO education requirements, orientation, classes like PALS and NRP, etc. If you are in-house, you get paid. Period. Never worked any nursing job where that wasn't the case.
Even as a per diem nurse I am paid for any class, certificate, training or meeting I am required to attend. This includes ACLS, BLS, OSHA stuff such as fire safety, universal precaution training, hazardous waste, etc. I also get paid if I attended staff meetings, which aren't mandatory. We also have a few things we can do at home that we get paid for, but the same amount of time whether done at home or at work.
supergirl. it nice that you are so optomistic. come back and talk in a few years. By the way, I do tons of outside continuing ed, but the classes taught by and required by the employer are considered time worked and therefore time paid for.
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Keep the attitude. You will go far.
All education is a priviledge and an honor. Mandatory or not. Paid or not.
One of the biggest complaints I have are schools who say "we are closed to honor Martin Luther King Jr.". That is totally out of line. The civil rights movement was fought to enable people to attend school. The way to honor Martin Luther King Jr. is to have double the classes! And all students should be grateful for the opportunity.
What the OP is taking about, I strongy believe as do others posting in this thread, has absolutely nothing to do with ce's.
I don't expect to be reimbursed or paid for the time it takes me to complete ce's unless the area I'm studying or certificate I'm acquiring is mandated by the hospital. And I'm pretty sure in my state it's unlawful to mandate something and the employer NOT compensate the employee.
I believe what the OP is taking about is mandated safety training required by the state, OSHA, or whatever. There's a big difference.
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Education is a privelege. Very true indeed. But when it's not of MY choosing or pursuit, but that of my employer, then the privelege becomes theirs to PAY me for MY time.
I believe what the OP is taking about is mandated safety training required by the state, OSHA, or whatever. There's a big difference.
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If these are two differant things, then what of CPR recertification. That would not be ce, but a safety issue. Is that on or off the clock? Who pays for it?
Lectures, Meetings and Training Programs: Attendance at lectures, meetings, training programs and similar activities need not be counted as working time only if four criteria are met, namely: it is outside normal hours, it isvoluntary, not job related, and no other work is concurrently performed.
RJ
all our staff meeting and continuing ed are on the clock...i cannot believe that this is legal..
If these are two differant things, then what of CPR recertification. That would not be ce, but a safety issue. Is that on or off the clock? Who pays for it?
It is on the clock and employer pays the cost. It is required in the nurse's job description and is a condition of employment. Therefore employer pays.
Now, I attended a conference of my own choosing that was not "approved" for reimbursement. I did not have to attend. I wanted to. THAT kind of knowledge helps me provide better care, increases my knowledge relevant to my specialty, and does make me more marketable. I paid for this. Do you see the difference?
However, I will point out that millions of employee's in other fields work off the clock every day in this country and dont get paid for it. It really is a common thing. It may not legal...but it is very very common.
When I was in sales, I remember I went head to head with the company ( a major Fortune 500) over a mandatory meeting because the meeting was held in a casino. I refused to walk in the casino on religious grounds. I won. --the meeting was also after hours and no extra pay.
[i have many friends who work for major corporations. ALL of them put in a good 10+ extra hours a week and dont report it. It just isnt something you do in the corporate world. You dont have to do it to keep your job, but I assure you it is noticed by upper managment who puts in the extra time and who doesnt]
If you believe something is an injustice, then pursue it by all means. Stand your ground.
I remember my parents pulling 90 hour weeks with no extra pay. They were salaried and knew that that is just what you do to advance. Even if you are salaried it is based on a 40 day week and you must report overtime.
My mom is in her 60's are pulls a good 70 hour week. Do you think she puts it on a time card?? No way. Not a chance.
You have to do it. If you dont, you will stay on the bottom rung of a company. Which is fine if that is what you want. But if it isnt...you must conform.
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RN4NICU, LPN, LVN
1,711 Posts
I will agree with what others have said. Mandatory education requirements are NOT the same thing as CEU's. They do not make you more marketable - they are usually JCAHO/state requirements. They are really for the benefit of the facility more than the nurse - the facility must prove upon request that their staff have met these requirements (med administration, fire safety, COBRA, etc.)
My hospital (non-union) pays for everything work-related. Staff meetings, committee meetings, JCAHO education requirements, orientation, classes like PALS and NRP, etc. If you are in-house, you get paid. Period. Never worked any nursing job where that wasn't the case.