I'm VERY against abortion! I can't imagine supporting some through one, not saying that I would be mean, or anything like that, but I seriously couldn't act like I thought it was "OK" to do it just because they are too selfish to be parent's and would rather kill a baby than give him/her to someone who would give anything to have a baby. [Please don't reply with all the "medical reasons" to have an abortion! I know you have rights under the law to choose to do what you want with your body. I'm simply saying that FOR ME assisting in an abortion would be the same (again) FOR ME as standing next to someone with a gun in their hand about to shoot another person then saying "Oh wait, you forgot to take off the safety!"] I have been intersted in the whole process of pregnancy since I was pretty young (around 14 or so) and for quite a while even wanted to become an OB but decided that having a family wouldn't work for me if I chose to follow that career, and thought being a L&D nurse would be a perfect fit for me. I had never even thought of the possiblity of having to participate in an abortion until here reciently. (A comment some one made in passing when I told them I was going into nursing school) I will be starting my prereqs for nursing school on the 23, so I know I may find another area of nursing that I would be happy in once I start clinicals, but I really want to be a L&D nurse. Will abortions be "required" for me to work in L&D??? TIA!
Yes, you've just agreed with our point about the OP being judgmental. You can't use the term "selfish" to refer to the actions of others and claim that you're not passing judgment. The fact that we all judge in certain situations doesn't make it appropriate for a nurse to refer to a patient in those terms.
The OP isn't a nurse or even in NS yet, so I how can she be referring to pts? She is wondering about a situaiton that could be possible if she were to work in L&D.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I said blood transfusion because that's what came to mind. I wasn't actally comparing the two, but rather comparing the respond provoked by each. You can plug in what ever procedure one can think. And, yes you're right, it WOULDN'T have the same response......... that was my point! This thread has gone so far off its original topic because of those that simply see the word 'abortion', go into 'debate mode', and start picking the OP apart! The thread wasn't started to debate the subject.
I'm sorry if you took my post to include you with those that stated (yes, they actually stated it) the OP doesn't belong in nursing. Perhaps I should have included quotes from the posts that I was referring to. I was simply expressing my disgust that something of the sort would have even been stated.
I agree with you that abortion is a hot topic with passionate feelings on both sides of the debate. I have never started an abortion thread and don't participate in a lot of them. This one drew my interest because I do feel that the OP brought much of the negative feedback upon herself by referring to patients who have abortions as "selfish". I don't believe that labeling patients is appropriate and doing so in an abortion debate is a surefire way to throw fat on the fire.
Specializes in LTC,Hospice/palliative care,acute care.
This thread has gone so far off its original topic because of those that simply see the word 'abortion', go into 'debate mode', and start picking the OP apart! The thread wasn't started to debate the subject.
I'm sorry if you took my post to include you with those that stated (yes, they actually stated it) the OP doesn't belong in nursing. Perhaps I should have included quotes from the posts that I was referring to. I was simply expressing my disgust that something of the sort would have even been stated.
Actually the thread became a "heated debate" because the OP referred to anyone who would have an abortion in quite a derogatory manner.Anyone that responded by pointing out the OP's VERY apparent disdain for such patients and whom questioned her ability to care for any and all patients regardless of their lifestyles or personal histories was subsequently accused of being pro-abortion,unchristian and of low morals (by inference) That's what this is really all about-that's what tripped my trigger.I never stated my stand on abortion on this thread nor will I because that is not the topic and I don't like my own morals or beliefs called into question because THAT has nothing to do with the topic.However I do continue to question the OP's ability to care for anyone whom lives a life that she does not understand..I think asking the OP if she is capable of doing so is a VALID question.Even putting aside the entire pro-life/pro-choice issue the OP was not able to state that she could care for ALL patients even if their beliefs went against hers.I've cared for child molestors,drug addicts,victims of domestic abuse,addicts,alcoholics, the morbidly obese,dirty smelly homeless folks and end stage COPD'ers who stll smoke..I come here to kvetch but I never EVER let them see how I may really FEEL....I don't think the OP can do that......
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
The OP isn't a nurse or even in NS yet, so I how can she be referring to pts? She is wondering about a situaiton that could be possible if she were to work in L&D.
She absolutely was speaking about patients; albeit hypothetical ones. I understand that she was wondering if it is possible that she can work in L&D; why do you feel the need to explain that to me? It is just a tad obvious by reading the title of the thread.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
Actually the thread became a "heated debate" because the OP referred to anyone who would have an abortion in quite a derogatory manner.Anyone that responded by pointing out the OP's VERY apparent disdain for such patients and whom questioned her ability to care for any and all patients regardless of their lifestyles or personal histories was subsequently accused of being pro-abortion,unchristian and of low morals (by inference) That's what this is really all about-that's what tripped my trigger.I never stated my stand on abortion on this thread nor will I because that is not the topic and I don't like my own morals or beliefs called into question because THAT has nothing to do with the topic.However I do continue to question the OP's ability to care for anyone whom lives a life that she does not understand..I think asking the OP if she is capable of doing so is a VALID question.Even putting aside the entire pro-life/pro-choice issue the OP was not able to state that she could care for ALL patients even if their beliefs went against hers.I've cared for child molestors,drug addicts,victims of domestic abuse,addicts,alcoholics, the morbidly obese,dirty smelly homeless folks and end stage COPD'ers who stll smoke..I come here to kvetch but I never EVER let them see how I may really FEEL....I don't think the OP can do that......
She absolutely was speaking about patients; albeit hypothetical ones. I understand that she was wondering if it is possible that she can work in L&D; why do you feel the need to explain that to me? It is just a tad obvious by reading the title of the thread.
Just referring back to the original topic that's all. It does seem like something that would be obvious, but sometimes people need reminders!
Just referring back to the original topic that's all. It does seem like something that would be obvious, but sometimes people need reminders!
No, we don't. We're aware of the original (intended) topic, and many of us have already stated that the OPs use of the word selfish for Pts and "killing their baby" are what made people raise eyebrows and, yes, take offense.
This was not a simple "It's against my religion/beliefs to assist with an abortion. What are my options/the requirements of working in an L&D unit?". THAT would have been received quite differently by those of us on the prochoice side of things. We wouldn't have seen the word "abortion" and jumped into 'debate mode' and 'picked the OP apart' (Oh please! By default she began her post picking me and millions of others apart. Not because she disagrees with abortion, but because she has slapped a label on us all, not knowing anything about any of us)
This has all been said previously. Or did you need a reminder?
Hmmm...Perhaps you are right, I probably shouldn't have gone into how I feel personaly, but did so because of the thought of having to participate in an abortion is very difficult for me. I know a woman who had an abortion (she was my best friends mother growing up) and I had all the love and respect for her as I did my own mother, so if anyone felt that I was personally attacking them, then that was not my intention at all, and I do appologize!
Have a Great Day!
Chancie
I seemed to remember the OP apologized . . . . so I searched and found it.
Specializes in Happily semi-retired; excited for the whole whammy.
I seemed to remember the OP apologized . . . . so I searched and found it.
steph
She apologizes for stating how she feels personally (for which there is no need to apologize, IMHO), but she actually didn't say she was sorry for labeling patients (for which I believe there is a need to apologize) and I have a sense that she isn't. Otherwise, she'd have been wise to go back and edit her OP so that it wouldn't be quoted in subsequent responses. I'd be willing to bet this person knows a heck of a lot more than one person who's had an abortion! None of the people that I know who have made this choice wear signs around their neck, so I'm sure we all know a lot more than one person who has had one.
None of the people that I know who have made this choice wear signs around their neck, so I'm sure we all know a lot more than one person who has had one.
Which is where my advice came from-if she talks like this with her coworkers, she's going to make more than a few enemies, because I think it's quite safe to assume (based on statistics) that it's quite likely she's had some experience with abortion--be it herself, her mother, her sister, her daughter, etc.
Is there anything more that's worthwhile to discuss on this thread? If not, maybe it's time to close it.
There is some irony in judging people for being judgmental. Not sure what the answers are, but it surely does seem like the temperature is rising and we're getting easily side-tracked.
The concensus seems to be that no one wants to be required to assist with a procedure that is morally repugnant to them; that neither attending to the patient after the procedure nor giving emergency care fall under the category of assisting with the procedure; and that a nurse should be able to provide compassionate care to her patients regardless of the personal beliefs and opinions involved.
There will be times when a nurse wants to change assignments because someone reminds them of an ex or there is some other visceral personal reaction. As long as it's specific and rare, this shouldn't be a problem. This is as much for the benefit of the patient as it is for the nurse.
A request having to do with philosophical differences is another matter. It is then incumbent upon the nurse to work through her emotions and learn how to find a place of neutrality from which she can provide care to those whom she finds challenging.
A certain procedure may never be acceptable to some nurses. Specific patients may spark a negative reaction. But trying to avoid certain types of patients is neither practical nor fair to co-workers.
If this thread is worth continuing, let's focus on the above issues and forgo the rest.
I am an RN on a busy labor and delivery unit and am one of many who refuse to participate in any kind of live abortion. There are a few for whom this does not bother their conscience. They usually volunteer. We are very fortunate to have a Chaplain who is supportive of our staff. If we need him for support he is there. We don't do many live abortions because they must go through the ethics committee first, so they usually go elsewhere - less trouble. However, we do have to deal with fetal demises. Very, very hard to go from one happy room to one filled with so much sadness. This is when Chaplain Kirk comes and STAYS with us. He will even put his arms around us while we cry. We are very lucky to have such a supportive individual with us.
Back to the subject: Administration wants to keep their nurses. Hurting them spiritually is one of the quickest way to make us walk. Usually there is someone there who is willing to do a therapeutic abortion. The charge nurse knows who they are. They know that I will not take part in a therapeutic abortion - I don't want to live with taking a life, no matter the reason. They respect this and in turn I do the work of the nurse willing to do the abortion. In all these years I have had no problems.
onyx77
404 Posts
The OP isn't a nurse or even in NS yet, so I how can she be referring to pts? She is wondering about a situaiton that could be possible if she were to work in L&D.