Will there ever be a surplus of nursing jobs again?!

[ProgressiveThinking]

Just wondering what everyone's perspective is on this. The average RN is 45 y/o, and shortages seem to be cyclical. Do you believe that over-saturation of the market with new grad nurses will obliterate the long-term shortage? OR..as the economy continues to show signs of improvement (slowly, but surely..it is), will nurses leave the profession like they did before the economy tanked?

This article does a good job of putting things into perspective:

http://www.nursetogether.com/Career/Career-Article/itemid/2325/Misreading-the-Current-RN-Labor-Market.aspx

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

The false nursing shortage propaganda is self seving and put out by those who stand to gain financialy from a glut of nurses on the market. It is a cynical scheme to make money at the expence of bright people who wish to enter a field with stabiliety.

Many of us (those of us who have been nurses for a while now) could feel the difference the moment (for my hospital that was early 2010) there where more nurses applying for each opening. Administration's threatment of nurses went from respectful and decent to "it's my way or the hiway". We went from being difficult to replace assets to nothing more than easily replaceable labor and an expence for the hospital to be cut any way possible. It was like walking into a freezer, I mean you could really feel the difference. All raises were frozen, health and other insurance premiums increased, effectivly cutting our wages, silly and stupid ideas from managment (scripting, Magnet etc) that previously were impossible to get nurses to go along with were now "you will do it or you can find some other place to work". The wage cuts for nurses, and forcing nurses to care for unsafe number of patients have made the hospitals lots of money. It is in their interest to create a glut of nurses. Along with the for profit "RN mills" and the public schools who have seen their funding and importance in the college or university grow. These people make money off the hopes and dreams of nurse wannbes and they make money by endangering patient safety.

I was very lucky in that I was able to find a great job at a great non-Magnet hospital where we have a union that prevents managment from abusing us. I still work at the big Magnet hospital I described above on a part time basis, but I am happy my living does not depend on them.

This is not unique to nurses right now- this is happening across the board with non-executive professional and paraprofessional jobs. Wage freezes, hiring freezes, insurance and benefit reductions, 'my way or the highway' management-- that's happening everywhere from the bottom of the barrel jobs to engineers and everything in between. It's the corporate, keep the money at the very top to benefit the executives and shareholders culture we live in today. There are 10 people standing in job willing to fill in for less money, less benefits and less respect. Shortsighted businesses are using this to their advantage.

If you ask me, the workforce has taken a huge step backwards in the past decade.. the fear of losing ones job is so real that employers are getting away with treating employees as subhuman- unworthy of respect. It's disgusting that it has come to this.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

How would anyone make the payment?? And I've read the horror stories. I thought paying 40,000 for my 4 year BSN was enough. There is something wrong there. Canadians pay on average 45 to 65 000 for a 4 year program at any school in the country. We have great schools.

100 000 is obscene. What in the world are they paying for?

One of those accelerated BSN courses....

[workingharder]

One of those accelerated BSN courses....

"Accelerated"? For that kind of money they should be using Warp Drive.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

I actually almost attended a BSN program at a local private university that costs 70k for tuition. I ended up getting into a CC LVN program that costed me 1500 plus books. Then, I almost attended the previouisly mentioned 120k RN mill out of sheer desperation since they accept you right away with no questions asked.

Luckily, I was accepted into the LVN- ADN RN bridge at the same CC I completed my LVN at. It cost me exactly $755 for my tuition in total. I got my books and uniform from a friend who previously finished the program for 50 bucks. Glad I didn't go to the RN mill because I just found out that my current employer doesn't hire anyone from the school, not even internal applicants.

Do I wish I had my BSN right away? Sure. Was my current path financially feasible? Very much so. Do I think my ADN was still the financially smarter option given the shift toward BSN preference for new grads based on my situation? Yes. Half of the ADN grads from last semester got jobs in hospitals. I already have a RN home health job lined up. I didn't quit my current hospital job, so I'll be an internal applicant which increases my chances of being hired as a RN. I was accepted into an online RN-BSN program, and between my current job and the HH job i'll be able to pay out of pocket without taking loans out (no kids).

I was able to work full-time throughout school, and pulled in 50k this year. I was able to help a struggling classmate out who has children and was in huge financial trouble (Maybe one day she'll be in admin and will be able to repay the favor-who knows?). Beats having to take loans out for living expenses.

Who knows.. Maybe I'll have to start in LTC because of my ADN status. Oh well, beats paying back 75k in loans. I'll finish my BSN paid for out of pocket and use my experience to get into a hospital. I've seen it done.

BSN is not always > ADN. Especially with a 120k price tag on it.

$755 for ADN + 8,000 for BSN > $120,000 BSN or $75,000 BSN.

[ProgressiveThinking, MSN, CRNA]

I do feel for the people who attend expensive private schools though. They're just trying to make a decent living and provide for their family. It's just sad that it has to be done at such a high price. These schools feed on desperation, and are taking advantage of people during tough times. Based on financial return of investment, 120k is worth it for med school, not nursing school. Even if a 6 figure salary is possible in so. cali when you're motivated enough. Oh well, I've gone off topic haha..

[NRSKarenRN, BSN, RN]

Our PA state universities costs $!5,000/yr just for tuition...add in onsite housing, meals and book

@ $12,000/yr, 4year BSN = $120,000 easily.

[OCNRN63, RN]

It gets even worse. . .there's a for-profit trade school in California that charges $132,000 in tuition for a BSN program and the chance to earn an RN license. If financed at 6.8 percent over 10 years, the payments on a $132,000 student loan would exceed $1,519 per month!

I feel sorry for the students out there who actually traveled down this path, could not find employment, and had to default on such staggering debt. It is a perpetual ball-and-chain that will never go away.

There's no such thing as defaulting on a student loan. It's yours forever: no bankruptcy forgiveness. They'll hunt you down for the money. I have the misfortune of having the same name as someone who has apparently "forgotten" she owes Sallie Mae tuition $$ from a student loan. I've gotten calls from collection agencies telling me I need to pay my loan. I am less than charitable when I explain to them I am not the "Jane Doe" they are looking for.

[diva rn, BSN, RN]

This is true...you cannot default or bankrupt a student loan!!!! (or the IRS..) You owe it for life!!!

[TheCommuter, BSN, RN]

There's no such thing as defaulting on a student loan.

This is true...you cannot default or bankrupt a student loan!!!! (or the IRS..) You owe it for life!!!

People can (and do) default on student loans when they stop making payments, but the consequences are dire because this type of debt can never be written off or discharged. They'll garnish your wages, take your social security, and basically shake you down for every red cent. Either way, they're getting their money by any means necessary.

[diva rn, BSN, RN]

Excuse my faux pas, that is what I meant. Of course, one can default. However, one may not bankrupt a student loan or have it discharged.

[tothepointeLVN, LVN]

Unless you become permanently disabled then it can be discharge but who wants that :/

[lifelearningrn, BSN, RN]

This is true...you cannot default or bankrupt a student loan!!!! (or the IRS..) You owe it for life!!!

And I can actually see why this is the case. Student loans are non-credit based so a kid out of high school with no money and no credit can go to college. The lender has to have some protection, and the fact that student loans are with you for life gives them some security.

The problem I have is that schools have caught on to the racket and are bending over backwards to make school as expensive as possible since kids can just fill out FAFSA and the school gets the money sent to them immediately. Not all schools do this, but the cost of education has risen ridiculously over the years, the more access kids have the higher the prices get.

What's the answer? If we start allowing discharge of loans, they will go back to credit based (or on parents credit) and the disadvantaged students will once again have no access to higher education.