Why preceptors don't precept

Specialties NP

Published

I found this article in my E-mail recently, it was a pretty good read, and if one goes around the site they will see several other complaints by preceptors pushing the same issue.

Students are not prepared for clinical.

Has the Bar Been Lowered for RN/NP Programs? : Clinician Reviews

I have seen this in a few students I precept also (which I only do now from certain schools). I had a few kids from online universities (the for profit crap-wagons) as students a few times. It was awful. None of them had any clue how to diagnose, prescribe, or even really do a true physical exam. Basic stuff they should have learned in nursing school, much less an MSN program.

Get with the program people, you go to these for profit schools with no requirements besides a BSN degree, don't learn squat, and expect us to precept you?

Sorry this is real life.

This message is brief, and to all those people who attend these junky schools. Stop making our profession look terrible. If you cant get into a real school, then many you should just stay a nurse, you probably aren't cut out for the real deal MSN level thinking.

Yeah, yeah, I know I sound harsh, but your type are the reason that our profession is looked down upon by so many. Personally, I am pretty well respected, but every time I start a new job or meet a new doc or whatever, I have to prove myself, and it is because of sloths that attend these programs and lower our standards.

So the take-home is. Don't go to a crappy school and expect to find a preceptor, we know better than to waste our time with you. Go to a well respected school and we will be glad to help you out the best we can and accommodate you.

I already wrote a nice long, nasty letter to our credentialing agencies telling them this, of course they turn a deaf ear. The credentialing groups for nurse practitioners is weaksauce, and ran by a bunch of DNP- think they know it alls that are trying to I don't know what, by pumping as many nurse practitioners into the market, ignoring quality.

I cant wait for the flames from this one, people on this forum seem to resent the truth, and sit in their little happy-bubble world full of white coats, stethoscopes, and hopes for a big easy paycheck.

And to those who come here, from those, for profit schools and try to tell us that they were one of the students who "went above and beyond, because learning is about what you put into it" I have one thing to say. you already told us what you put into it by going to one of these programs. A lot of money and no thought. School is supposed to filter out those who aren't fit. PA and MD/DO schools do this. Yeah, every once in a while a junky one slipps by, but you know its a lot less frequent than NP schools.

Just fess up and admit that this is all true.. Preceptors are seeing it everywhere.

NP education is a lax joke with fluffy requirements.

I also gave psychguy and Jules A a personal spot to like this post. Why? Because they have great wisdom and common sense, and you all don't like what they say, because its the truth.

sauce out.

Specializes in Family practice, emergency.

Anders, one of my favorite professors did this. It was completely optional, but you could do a "visit" with her, where she would give you VS, pertinent history, and chief complaint, then go from there. I loved this learning method and it was so helpful. She had a ton of experience as an NP and was one of those who really facilitated learning. We need more of those!

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And don't get me started on how NP schools are too effing cheap to compensate high-quality preceptors.

I am a huge advocate for higher pay and respect when it comes to general NP practice. However, I view precepting as part of professional service and giving back what was once given to me. I do not expect compensation for this. I remain very grateful for preceptors that had a role in my medical training and will continue giving back in a similar fashion.

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So it would be better to spend 90k at georgetown than 35k at a place like Chamberlain?

You are comparing a private nonprofit research university (R1) with a private for-profit online nursing school. I personally would spend

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Specializes in OB, Women’s health, Educator, Leadership.

Which other professional programs and organizations require the students to find their own preceptors? Sure this question was asked but I may have overlooked it?

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Which other professional programs and organizations require the students to find their own preceptors? Sure this question was asked but I may have overlooked it?

Social workers seeking LCSW will often fall into this category. To meet qualifications for LCSW, most states require supervised clinical hours following an MSW. Some jobs offer supervision as a perk. However, many other students must go out and find their own clinical preceptors who will charge $100 to $150/hour for supervision. I would hate to see nursing fall to the level that preceptors demand $150 an hour from students to precept. As I responded previously, I personally feel that I owe it to my profession to precept. I valued the experience, time, and altruistic nature of my clinical preceptors and hope that I can fill this role for future students.

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Specializes in NICU, telemetry.
Anders, one of my favorite professors did this. It was completely optional, but you could do a "visit" with her, where she would give you VS, pertinent history, and chief complaint, then go from there. I loved this learning method and it was so helpful. She had a ton of experience as an NP and was one of those who really facilitated learning. We need more of those!

I have had this in multiple classes. It may be in the form of discussion board or case studies, but it had the same concept. Even my pharm class this semester brought in diagnosing based off symptoms and labs. It wasn't the sole focus(as it was a pharm class...), but the professor was good about doing this. I have found this to be very beneficial.

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150 bucks to follow a social worker around? lol, ill pass considering social workers making peanuts

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You are comparing a private nonprofit research university (R1) with a private for-profit online nursing school. I personally would spend

Absoulutely not. That was my point. I was responding to a PP who cited "cost" as the measure of a programs' worth.

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Specializes in OB, Women’s health, Educator, Leadership.
Social workers seeking LCSW will often fall into this category. To meet qualifications for LCSW, most states require supervised clinical hours following an MSW. Some jobs offer supervision as a perk. However, many other students must go out and find their own clinical preceptors who will charge $100 to $150/hour for supervision. I would hate to see nursing fall to the level that preceptors demand $150 an hour from students to precept. As I responded previously, I personally feel that I owe it to my profession to precept. I valued the experience, time, and altruistic nature of my clinical preceptors and hope that I can fill this role for future students.

Thank you for responding to my question. I guess I was thinking along the line of how little respect is given to the nursing profession because other professions provide their students the learning and guidance they need to perform as professionals, where we (except for the dedicated few) as a profession fall short. Preceptorship should be addressed as part of our training by the school, but of course they know this.

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I bought a gateway computer way back in the day. It sucked majorly. So I bought 12 more and went on allcomputers.com and complained non stop about how it didn't work and how my debt kept getting higher and higher and I couldn't do my job since the computers just kept sucking.

I kept posting on the forum that gateway should fix it but they wouldn't. But I kept buying their computers. IT JUST DIDNT MAKE SENSE???? How could they sell such terrible computers to poor old people like me who just wanted a computer to use for work? Those evil bastards!

Really folks, don't you understand economics? or are you so wrapped up in your altruistic nurse-bubble that you let people ream your wallet without second thought?

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Specializes in Forensic Psychiatry.

This is my perspective as a PMHNP student:

I really dislike that there is no standard in NP education. These are just the differences I've seen both in my time working as an RN and as an NP student.

Entry:

Some schools require BSN & 2+ years of practice - in specialty if you're choosing one of the niche degrees (ACNP, PMHNP, PNP).

Some schools will accept anyone who has a BSN right out of nursing school and will churn out DNP's without any actual nursing experience.

Other schools will take people with a BA in English literature, no healthcare experience, no nursing degree and churn out an NP in 3 years.

Delivery:

We have "For Profit" online programs where you learn everything via the internet, take tests on the internet and never see a day in a classroom.

We have brick and mortar hybrid programs where stuff like policy and the more filler fluff classes are delivered online but other classes like Patho are delivered in the classroom.

Then there are solid distance schools like where you can do the entire program online but have to fly in for exams and clinical.

Finally we still have a few completely brick and mortar programs where you're expected to learn, test and present in class.

Content:

In all programs - even solid brick and mortar programs - there is a significant amount of filler nursing fluff classes. Do I really need another semester of healthcare policy? Or Nursing theory for an NP degree? I work in Psych - I'd love to have more practical classes and find myself reviewing Dr. Najeebs video lectures and First Aid for the Psychiatry Clerkship a lot to make up for content I'm not getting in the NP program but still think is good to know.

Clinical Placement:

Some programs make you find your own while other's have vetted sites that will place you. I could see how the find your own would be nice if you've got a solid nursing career and good resources. Unfortunately it seems like many people going into NP programs don't have that and have to cold call preceptors.

Clinical experiences:

There seems to be this huge range from 500 hours - > 1000 hours. Some people are basically just shadowing other people are doing rotations with the medical students, interns and residents. In my program we rotate through the teaching hospital and the time commitment for clinical gets heavier and heavier as time progresses. I do about 20 hours a week as first year NP intern and it increases over my last 3 semesters. The neighboring school that offers the same degree only does 4 hours a week of clinical. We also get calls all the time from online for-profit students and the site will not accept them period. Why? It's run by an MD and in his words "There are no online for profit MD programs. There are no Online for profit PA programs. There shouldn't be online for-profit NP programs and I will not accept them no matter how smart they say they are."

Finally:

Why is this? What is the reason for so many differences between programs?

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all the differences are there because the credentials bodies are ran by stupid people with worthless DNPs. They have no idea how to run an organization and try to keep nursing as far away from actual science as they can.

Oh well, once these graduates start killing people maybe things will change, until then, they probably wont.

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