Why a Philadelphia hospital gave in to a racist demand?

Brownms46 · Oct 5, 2003

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Originally posted by SnowieRN
Uh.. I sent that the family's prerogative? If I walked in and said I didn't want female employee's working on me.. that would be my choice as well? I'm sorry I just don't see why everything has to be turned into a racist comment, when its his choice.

It was also his choice to have wife admitted to a hospital, that employ blacks! To me this is taking the "I'm the customer, and I should get what I want..waaaay to far! so are you saying that every white, or black person who comes into the hospital should get the staff person of their choice????

imenid37 · Oct 5, 2003

I f the hospital had known about this guy in advance (like maybe the OB dr's office had had the brains and ball s to notify the unit manager at the hospital) before the delivery, then the unit/hospital administration could've sent this fool a letter stating they could not accomodate his request or at least develop a well-thought out strategy to deal w/ him. This would've given him time to search elsewhere for care or just deal w/ it and of course, for the hospital to consult an attorney in the meantime. I don't know who's rights legally take presidence here. No one would disagree that this guy is toal and complete scum, but wether he legally has a right to do this and have his request honoured is another matter.

Incidentally, one of the perinatal loss counslors at my hospital is very obese. She made a phone call to mom who had lost a full-term baby unexpectedly and was totally distaught and in crisis. The nurse arranged to meet w/ this mom and explained to her where, when, and what she looked like so the mom would recognize her when they met. I think they were to meet at our hospital's community education centre in one of the classrooms. The mom was dead silent. So the nurse asked her what was wrong and this grieving mother said she "really was turned off by FAT people and didn't think she could relate to this nurse." They talked some more and the nurse offerred to get someone else to talk to her, but the pt. decided to meet her anyway and it did turn out well. So please don't think there aren't bigoted fools of all sorts out there. Personally, I found this unbelievable that a woman grieving for her dead baby had this kind of thought in her head at a time like that, but she did. Peolpe are just damn weird sometimes! I still think that the hospital needed to act to protect their employees from his verbal assaults if they knew that was a strong possibility.

Love-A-Nurse · Oct 5, 2003

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originally posted by snowiern
So I guess im the only one that didn't see it as racist. there might be other reasons behind it. if I had a patient and I walked in and the man said "I don't want a gay male nurse" I would think "OK, I can see where this guy is coming from.." and I would accept it as making him uncomfortable, not as him being particularly rude toward me. make your patient comfortable!!

Respectfully, if the request was, I don't want this nurse, who happens to be of color, assisting with the delivery because she/he was rude, or unpleasant or etc., there would be no need to cry racism; Instead, it was stated, no African American [although I think other words may have been mention, if only thinking it] not only suggests but confirms, racism.

I don't think any of us is saying the man/wife didn't have a right to refused who took care of them, it is the principle and manner in which it occurred, all instead of this one.

Brownms46 · Oct 5, 2003

I don't feel the supervisors should be punished either! I do feel however, that administration should, as there should've have been policies already in place to deal with this kind of situation! It's nothing new!

And doesn't only apply to patients, and their families member either! In Hartsville, S, C. there was a white OB/GYN who refused to share the same instruments, that a black OB/GYN used!!! In fact he refused to take call for this MD, even though they were the only two OB/ GYN's in town!!!

Well the white MD left the hospital, rather than have to deal with the black MD! But he didn't stop there, he told pts. not to visit this MD, and tried to encourage white nurses, not to work for him. His premise was, if he didn't have any pts. or staff, he would leave!!!

Didn't happen! Pts. grew to L O V E the black MD, and thought he walked on water! He staff was the best paid, and the best treated staff, and you couldn't have got a job there, unless one of them croaked first!

The black MD was the sweetest, and most saintly man I have ever met! You could call him all nite long, and he never, ever got the least bit upset..NEVER! I used to go to this hospital as agency, and whenever I went, I knew I would have a good nite!! He lived around the corner, but he really lived at the hospital, and yes he had a family!

I could go on and on about him, but I'll let it go. Well...guess what happened, the white MD got into some kind of trouble, at the hospital he ran off to, and for one reason or another, had to come back to the first hospital. He had been over the OB/GYN dept, but now the black MD was!

Guess who welcomed him back with open arms, and never once bought up how the white MD had treated him:D! But the white doctor still wouldn't take call for him! In his racist mind, it was more than too much to have to ask to come back, but he still wasn't going to help him in anyway!

That black MD continued on, and never said a word! In fact he continued on, until just before another black MD was to join him in practice. But before that could happen, the black MD developed CA, and after doing Exp, they closed him back up, and he was dead within two weeks! And I bet that white MD didn't even send a card!

Yes racism exists, in a whole lot of folks! Sorry, I went off the deep end there, but this incident bought back that story.

fergus51 · Oct 5, 2003

I don't understand how people can think patients have the right to demand who their caregivers are? People most certainly do not have that right. I can't go into the hospital and demand that only Mary and Susy look after me. They have the right to refuse care from anyone, but that's different. If people don't want to have any contact with the outside world, they should stay home or learn to be a little more accomodating when they do go to the hospital.

We often have this problem on our unit. Parents want a certain nurse or a certain type of nurse to look after their baby. Generally the answer is "We can not let parents choose their child's nurse. You will get a nurse that is competent". Because of staffing issues, there is no way to guarantee your favorite nurse, and assignments are made by the charge nurse, no one else. If nurses want to be seen as professionals, we can't be treated like waitresses.

Brownms46 · Oct 5, 2003

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Originally posted by fergus51
If nurses want to be seen as professionals, we can't be treated like waitresses.

RIGHT ON!

ktwlpn, LPN · Oct 5, 2003

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Originally posted by fergus51
People are entitled to a competent nurse. Not a black one, white one, christian one, etc. Giving in to this type of behavior only serves to degrade nurses further. A hospital is not a Burger King.

So you are saying that a patient should not have the right to refuse to be cared for by a nurse whom makes them un-comfortable? We have debated this on the board at length.Patients can find any number of reasons to refuse care from nursing staff...When is it acceptable? When the patient is offended by one's sex or sexual orientation? Men are entering labor and delivery-does a patient have the right to refuse a male nurse in that setting? Can an elderly woman refuse care from a male aide or nurse? What about a younger female patient?Would you be willing if you were black to take care of the skinhead and possibly be put in a situation in which your license could be jeopardized? I feel that if I am a consumer of a service and it is not making me comfortable then I have the right to ask for an alternative-just as I have the right to choose a particular doctor .I hate racism and bigots of all kinds but I KNOW that people are NEVER going to change....If you take away one person's right to choose then you have to take away everyone's right-I am afraid that I am not making my point in a clear and concise manner.....argh.I can't think straight today...sorry

fergus51 · Oct 5, 2003

A patient has the right to refuse care. Where I work, the only reason a patient has the right to demand another health care worker is because of religion. So if it is against your religion to have black people touch you, you can request someone else. Otherwise, sorry. We will sometimes be nice and accomodate certain requests, but no, patients do not make up nurses' assignments. The charge nurse does.

This might be because I am in Canada, but I don't believe that the patient is the customer. This is not a hotel or a restaurant. I am not a servant, I am not there just to make my customer happy. We are there to provide them with the best medical care we can, not to coddle them and meet ridiculous demands. If you want to handpick pick all your health care providers, you need to go elsewhere. If you let patients demand to decide who will work with them, where does it end? What if you don't have enough white women to look after them that day? What if us white women don't want to be stuck looking after all the biggots all the time?

Brownms46 · Oct 5, 2003

I feel there is a different between deciding that you don't want someone to take care of you because they're a certain color or nationality. Discrimination has been defined, and this hospital had a policy I now see, and they didn't follow it. People have the right to go to MD of their choice, and they have the right to refuse care from an individual, based on something the person said, or didn't say, that made them uncomfortable.

They also have the right to state their preferences, but the administration has the right to tell them up front, this is our policy, and we will abide by our policy...period. We will not discriminate! When you admit someone, the goal is to meet their needs, to the best of your ability.

But to start making assignments for a unit full of patients, based on everyone's preference, it's not going to work! And sets up a very bad foundation, for abuse of said policy.

This is the 21st century, and there are hospitals clamoring to get patients in their doors. So if you have a problem, I think it's the person with the problem, who needs to determine where would best suit their needs. And if they can't find a place, then I guess they have to deal with whatever their hangup is, or get a dang midwife, or a private duty nurse, and stay at home!

And I agree if their MD knew they were racists, he should hve dealt with the problem before they showed up at the hospital! MO

tonchitoRN · Oct 5, 2003

i had an elderly patient who demanded we move his black roommate out of the room. i was in charge and because of my outrage for his racism i refused his request. he remained out of his room for hours and even cried. i continued to refuse. finally the other nurses felt sorry for him. i informed them they are more than welcome to move the man (the one making the request) but i would not be a part of his racism. i hate racism and don't give in to it. you would be amazed how prevalent it is in the elderly (or maybe you would not be surprised). although the above incident happened in a hospital it was a common occurrance in a LTC i worked in. funny these racists accepted care from black caretakers but refused black roommates. go figure.

gwenith, BSN, RN · Oct 5, 2003

I would have loved to pull the "real dumb blonde" on that racist bigot starting with asking which one of them he or his wife was actually having the baby, telling them that this was my first time but I had read some books and even had a book with me to help me over the tricky bits. :lol2:

I am with Fergus we have patients not customers and although we will go so far to accommodate beyond that it is tough toenails Mate!! Go elsewhere. In our 21st Century we are not clamoring to get patients in the doors but clamoring to get them out!!!! I suppose that is the difference between public and private.

Having said that there are occasions where we do take a consideration an one would be the WWII POW veteran who will not or rather cannot be cared for by an Asian person as it brings back memories of places like the Burma Railway and the Kokoda Trail. Those are specific problems with specific associations but even then the Ex POW prisoner refusing to be cared for by a person of Asian origin is a rare event.

lil_p · Oct 6, 2003

I agree with those who say racism is around, and probably will not go away any time soon, It's just a bit more covert now.

Sure, administration tried to prevent a potential nightmare.

It's sad especially when there are so many cultural considerations nurses have to take into account, including our own culturally biased? ways of thinking?