Why nurses eat their young?

OCNRN63, RN · Sep 25, 2014

How about THIS: a new nurse eating his old? Yep dealt with that with a brand-new nurse whom I precepted who was rude, condescending, patronizing and quick to throw anyone under the bus to save his own butt. It cuts both ways, my friends. BOTH ways. When solid YEARS of experience is looked at with disdain, and the nurse is unwilling to take ANY constructive and (NOT mean) criticism, I have a real problem. And I worry about the future of that nurse and anyone unfortunate to be working at his side.

Yep...happened to me. Then years later, when I worked with her again, she was really bad; tried to torpedo my career. I hope I never run into her again.

RN_rescue_ninja · Oct 5, 2014

Insecurity.

prettyboyswag · Oct 7, 2014

The reasons are frightening and hard to bear. I'll give you reasons why nurses eat their young. In other words, why experienced nurses like to devour the newbies. This is my take from personal experience and observations.

1) They are already extremely stressed out: Meaning they don't want anymore stress or additional responsibility of watching over and training a new grad. From dealing with doctors, to patients, to family members, to being short-staffed, they likely see you as more of a burden then anything else.

2) They hate being a bedside nurse: If one hates their job, they won't be so enthusiastic to train the next generation.

3) They see the next generation as incompetent and lazy. They turn on the tv and see all the dumb stuff young people do. They don't think you try hard in school and expect a free-load of knowledge to appear without working hard for it.

4) They may not be paid to train you: Meaning they aren't paid extra to train you. They still make the same amount of money. As you know, money rules the world. Why would anyone want to take added responsibility for the same pay.

5) They may not like you: For some undetermined reason, they may not like you, for the way you walk or talk, it could be for something completely irrelevant to your work, including race or religious beliefs. Yes discrimination in the workplace is very common.

6) They are getting ready to leave the profession: If someone is near retirement or about to switch careers, the last thing on their mind is 'you". They are focusing on themselves and see you as detrimental or as a hassle to their plans.

7) Like the saying goes, no such thing as a free-lunch: They likely faced the same struggles when you 1st started your nursing career. Trying to get a hang of things. They want you to go through the same hardships that they faced.

* To sum things up, from the stress of the job, to dealing with pt's and doctors, to being short-staffed, to being over-worked and tired, to missing a holiday since you have to work or you'll risk losing your job, you add a new grad on top of all this, then you have a volcano, and in some cases, no incentives to take on the extra work. This is why so many new grads leave the nursing profession within the 1st 2-3 years. You have to really ask yourself are these challenges you can take on/handle in a new career? If not, look the other way. Nursing isn't for every1.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Oct 7, 2014

The reasons are frightening and hard to bear. I'll give you reasons why nurses eat their young. In other words, why experienced nurses like to devour the newbies. This is my take from personal experience and observations.
1) They are already extremely stressed out: Meaning they don't want anymore stress or additional responsibility of watching over and training a new grad. From dealing with doctors, to patients, to family members, to being short-staffed, they likely see you as more of a burden then anything else.
2) They hate being a bedside nurse: If one hates their job, they won't be so enthusiastic to train the next generation.
3) They see the next generation as incompetent and lazy. They turn on the tv and see all the dumb stuff young people do. They don't think you try hard in school and expect a free-load of knowledge to appear without working hard for it.
4) They may not be paid to train you: Meaning they aren't paid extra to train you. They still make the same amount of money. As you know, money rules the world. Why would anyone want to take added responsibility for the same pay.
5) They may not like you: For some undetermined reason, they may not like you, for the way you walk or talk, it could be for something completely irrelevant to your work, including race or religious beliefs. Yes discrimination in the workplace is very common.
6) They are getting ready to leave the profession: If someone is near retirement or about to switch careers, the last thing on their mind is 'you". They are focusing on themselves and see you as detrimental or as a hassle to their plans.
7) Like the saying goes, no such thing as a free-lunch: They likely faced the same struggles when you 1st started your nursing career. Trying to get a hang of things. They want you to go through the same hardships that they faced.
* To sum things up, from the stress of the job, to dealing with pt's and doctors, to being short-staffed, to being over-worked and tired, to missing a holiday since you have to work or you'll risk losing your job, you add a new grad on top of all this, then you have a volcano, and in some cases, no incentives to take on the extra work. This is why so many new grads leave the nursing profession within the 1st 2-3 years. You have to really ask yourself are these challenges you can take on/handle in a new career? If not, look the other way. Nursing isn't for every1.

Oh, for pity's sake.

Nurses do not "eat their young." If they DID eat you, it would probably be for an attitude such as the one you're exhibiting here. Yes, nurses are stressed out and often overworked, and yes having to orient or precept a student or a new grad just adds to the workload and the stress. That's very true. However most of the bedside nurses who are actually doing the precepting don't hate their jobs. In order to precept, you need to have at least 2-3 years of experience in our ICU. The ones who hate their jobs are gone well before then. (According to what I read here, they're probably on their fourth or fifth job.)

Most nurses are not paid more to precept, but we see it as part of our job to foster the next generation of nurses. Money truly does not rule the world, especially among nurses. We wouldn't do the job for free, but we'll take a job where we earn a bit less but enjoy the job more -- and nurses seem to constantly take on more responsibility without more money.

We may not like you -- we don't have to like you to train you or to work with you. But discrimination? Seriously? If I don't like you, it has more to do with your attitude and behavior than with your gender, sexual orientation or skin color.

As someone who is nearing retirement, I can assure you that my passion for teaching has not deserted me. And it probably won't until I'm long out the door and unable to come up with the license renewal fee anymore. But your statement about nurses nearing retirement age was pretty discriminatory in and of itself.

I know of no experienced nurses who get a kick out of making new nurses struggle or forcing them to go through the same hardships we did. (Although I do wish some of the new grads would stop complaining to me about how LONG they have to wait for NCLEX results . . . I had to wait 6-8 WEEKS.) Like most experienced nurses, however, I get frustrated with new grads who expect to step on the unit and immediately become nurse leaders or walk into a Monday-Friday 8 hour day shift position when they've chosen to work in the ICU. Yes, Marlene does work Tues-Thurs 12 hour day shifts, but she's been here for 25 years and she waited for the position to open. As did Elmore, who works straight days, no holidays. Sometimes you DO have to pay your dues before you get the perks that someone else has -- someone who waited years to get those perks.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Oct 7, 2014

The reasons are frightening and hard to bear. I'll give you reasons why nurses eat their young. In other words, why experienced nurses like to devour the newbies. This is my take from personal experience and observations.
1) They are already extremely stressed out: Meaning they don't want anymore stress or additional responsibility of watching over and training a new grad. From dealing with doctors, to patients, to family members, to being short-staffed, they likely see you as more of a burden then anything else.
2) They hate being a bedside nurse: If one hates their job, they won't be so enthusiastic to train the next generation.
3) They see the next generation as incompetent and lazy. They turn on the tv and see all the dumb stuff young people do. They don't think you try hard in school and expect a free-load of knowledge to appear without working hard for it.
4) They may not be paid to train you: Meaning they aren't paid extra to train you. They still make the same amount of money. As you know, money rules the world. Why would anyone want to take added responsibility for the same pay.
5) They may not like you: For some undetermined reason, they may not like you, for the way you walk or talk, it could be for something completely irrelevant to your work, including race or religious beliefs. Yes discrimination in the workplace is very common.
6) They are getting ready to leave the profession: If someone is near retirement or about to switch careers, the last thing on their mind is 'you". They are focusing on themselves and see you as detrimental or as a hassle to their plans.
7) Like the saying goes, no such thing as a free-lunch: They likely faced the same struggles when you 1st started your nursing career. Trying to get a hang of things. They want you to go through the same hardships that they faced.
* To sum things up, from the stress of the job, to dealing with pt's and doctors, to being short-staffed, to being over-worked and tired, to missing a holiday since you have to work or you'll risk losing your job, you add a new grad on top of all this, then you have a volcano, and in some cases, no incentives to take on the extra work. This is why so many new grads leave the nursing profession within the 1st 2-3 years. You have to really ask yourself are these challenges you can take on/handle in a new career? If not, look the other way. Nursing isn't for every1.

I am sorry you have not had a good experience so far. I know you are very unhappy in your job. ....once you graduate and are a nurse I hope it improves for you. I assure you most nurses want to mentor the younger generation we want competent nurses when we need them.

SionainnRN · Oct 7, 2014

Oh, for pity's sake.
Nurses do not "eat their young." If they DID eat you, it would probably be for an attitude such as the one you're exhibiting here. Yes, nurses are stressed out and often overworked, and yes having to orient or precept a student or a new grad just adds to the workload and the stress. That's very true. However most of the bedside nurses who are actually doing the precepting don't hate their jobs. In order to precept, you need to have at least 2-3 years of experience in our ICU. The ones who hate their jobs are gone well before then. (According to what I read here, they're probably on their fourth or fifth job.)
Most nurses are not paid more to precept, but we see it as part of our job to foster the next generation of nurses. Money truly does not rule the world, especially among nurses. We wouldn't do the job for free, but we'll take a job where we earn a bit less but enjoy the job more -- and nurses seem to constantly take on more responsibility without more money.
We may not like you -- we don't have to like you to train you or to work with you. But discrimination? Seriously? If I don't like you, it has more to do with your attitude and behavior than with your gender, sexual orientation or skin color.
As someone who is nearing retirement, I can assure you that my passion for teaching has not deserted me. And it probably won't until I'm long out the door and unable to come up with the license renewal fee anymore. But your statement about nurses nearing retirement age was pretty discriminatory in and of itself.
I know of no experienced nurses who get a kick out of making new nurses struggle or forcing them to go through the same hardships we did. (Although I do wish some of the new grads would stop complaining to me about how LONG they have to wait for NCLEX results . . . I had to wait 6-8 WEEKS.) Like most experienced nurses, however, I get frustrated with new grads who expect to step on the unit and immediately become nurse leaders or walk into a Monday-Friday 8 hour day shift position when they've chosen to work in the ICU. Yes, Marlene does work Tues-Thurs 12 hour day shifts, but she's been here for 25 years and she waited for the position to open. As did Elmore, who works straight days, no holidays. Sometimes you DO have to pay your dues before you get the perks that someone else has -- someone who waited years to get those perks.

I seriously have the biggest, but work appropriate, crush on you! I love that you are able to say what I want to, and so eloquently! Thank you!

LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN · Oct 8, 2014

I seriously have the biggest, but work appropriate, crush on you! I love that you are able to say what u wNt, and so eloquently! Thank you!

I second THIS. :yes:

prettyboyswag · Oct 8, 2014

lol don't get me wrong. My post isn't saying that i feel "ALL" nurses eat their young. I'm giving reasons why a nurse would eat their young, things i have seen with my own 2 eyes. If you want to look at statistics, i would estimate about 25% of nurses eat their young. This is a conservative figure, it could be higher or lower. The majority do not behave this way or eat their young. So I just wanted to clarify any misconceptions. There is no attitude being exhibited. Some nurses can be downright nasty and rude, this is indeed fact, but i can understand why based on the reasons I listed above. You even validated some of the points i made in your own post. I just scratched the edge of the surface. We didn't even discuss the infighting that goes on between nurses themselves, poor management, issues with being floated to a dept. you're not competent or trained in, issues with mandatory overt-time and pt. safety, short-staffing, burnout, pay freezes, etc...If you search online, you will find many studies on turnover rates, reasons, ect. The whole eating young thing is just 1 issue of many.

SionainnRN · Oct 8, 2014

lol don't get me wrong. My post isn't saying that i feel "ALL" nurses eat their young. I'm giving reasons why a nurse would eat their young, things i have seen with my own 2 eyes. If you want to look at statistics, i would estimate about 25% of nurses eat their young. This is a conservative figure, it could be higher or lower. The majority do not behave this way or eat their young. So I just wanted to clarify any misconceptions. There is no attitude being exhibited. Some nurses can be downright nasty and rude, this is indeed fact, but i can understand why based on the reasons I listed above. You even validated some of the points i made in your own post. I just scratched the edge of the surface. We didn't even discuss the infighting that goes on between nurses themselves, poor management, issues with being floated to a dept. you're not competent or trained in, issues with mandatory overt-time and pt. safety, short-staffing, burnout, pay freezes, etc...If you search online, you will find many studies on turnover rates, reasons, ect. The whole eating young thing is just 1 issue of many.

Yeah that estimate is your personal experience. I have never seen or experience NETY, none of my nursing school friends have seen or experience NETY. You know the saying about if you smell poop all day long to check your own shoe? Pretty sure this applies to you.

What I have seen is extremely entitled new grads who refuse to learn, think they're above working nights, weekends, and holidays, refuse to ask questions or listen to anyone trying to help them, and think anytime someone does tell them how to do something correctly or give constructive criticism they cry NETY from the rooftops. Luckily these people are few and far between but I've seen them way more than anything that could be considered NETY.

kalycat, BSN, RN · Oct 8, 2014

Some nurses can be downright nasty and rude, this is indeed fact, but i can understand why based on the reasons I listed above.

People everywhere can be downright nasty and rude, as many here have mentioned. Ever been the new kid in an office or corporation with many long-standing seasoned employees? How about community mental health or substance abuse treatment? Healthcare administration?

Nurses are human and personality tends to follow a pretty standard distribution. In nursing, there may be more attention drawn to negative behavior because 1) society has a perception that nurses are supposed to be kind, compassionate, Florence incarnate, etc etc etc. 2) the stakes in nursing are a bit higher than your average office, and it is a profession that demands a high degree of precision/attention to detail and also has a steep learning curve. Thus, the perceived "nitpicking".

I disagree that morale is crappy everywhere and this is the root cause of rudeness. Yes, healthcare is a business and yes there are some big growing pains happening. However, not all nurses have insane patient ratios, mandatory overtime, and the like. I understand that this is more common in certain areas of the country than others, and likewise a lot has to do with union representation and contracts. But to make a wholesale statement that all work environments are like this is incorrect, in my opinion. I've seen both sides, sometimes in the same state in two different hospital systems, both as a nursing student and in my previous career.

Personal experience only goes so far, both as a basis for my opinion and for the other "evidence"/estimates presented. It's all anecdotal. IMHO, we would be better served trying to be the best nurses and future preceptors we can be, own our behavior, and work to change the culture one person at a time. When it comes to petty unpleasantness, I try my best to remember that I can't control others, only my reaction to them and my future behavior/treatment of others. No one is perfect, and someone who is being rude may be troubled by something that isn't related to work at all. I hate being hen pecked as much as anyone. I even hate swimming in the estrogen ocean. It's no fun. But it is no where near as unpleasant as true lateral violence.

True bullying does exist, in nursing and elsewhere, as does harassment and a number of other horrible things. The focus should be on genuine lateral violence, how to prevent it and how best to assist those who have been harmed by it. I dislike the idea that the profound impact of these incidents is lessened/cheapened by blanket statements, muddying the water, and perpetuation of the idea that nurses are somehow meaner than other people...and that they prefer a tasty marinated newbie to whatever lunch they've packed.

*steps off soap box* ;-)

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses

psu_213, BSN, RN · Oct 8, 2014

eing exhibited. Some nurses can be downright nasty and rude, this is indeed fact, but i can understand why based on the reasons I listed above.

I have seen a lot more cases of patients being rude to patients than nurses being rude to each other. Based on my own estimates, it occurs at about a 50:1 ratio. Yet we never hear about patients eating nurses…but it is a real problem.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Oct 9, 2014

lol don't get me wrong. My post isn't saying that i feel "ALL" nurses eat their young. I'm giving reasons why a nurse would eat their young, things i have seen with my own 2 eyes. If you want to look at statistics, i would estimate about 25% of nurses eat their young. This is a conservative figure, it could be higher or lower. The majority do not behave this way or eat their young. So I just wanted to clarify any misconceptions. There is no attitude being exhibited. Some nurses can be downright nasty and rude, this is indeed fact, but i can understand why based on the reasons I listed above. You even validated some of the points i made in your own post. I just scratched the edge of the surface. We didn't even discuss the infighting that goes on between nurses themselves, poor management, issues with being floated to a dept. you're not competent or trained in, issues with mandatory overt-time and pt. safety, short-staffing, burnout, pay freezes, etc...If you search online, you will find many studies on turnover rates, reasons, ect. The whole eating young thing is just 1 issue of many.

Perhaps your own experience is colored by your own attitude?