Why the NP degree will be the next MBA with 7 simple, quick reasons

meanmaryjean, DNP, RN · Jul 4, 2014

If you have two majors, the word is 'dual' not 'duel' .

Carry on.

CantDecideUsername · Jul 5, 2014

I didn't compare what they did, only that they both spend 1000's of hours learning.

Ok

But honestly a doctor that spends 1000's of hours learning and practicing the 4 years worth of training in medicine he received is MUCH different than a nurse who "learns" by watching the MD's practice medicine.

That's just my humble opinion, and I'd like to reiterate that I don't completely disagree with your above statements- just stating the other side of the argument

OCRN3 · Jul 5, 2014

I believe both sides of the arguments are valid. I do find that nurses see much more how everything that doctors do affect the patient more than the actual doctor does. A doctor prescribes meds, the nurse administers and monitors the patient for 12 hours a day. A doctor sees a pt for about 5-10 minutes a day and relies on the nurses assessments and documentation. The doctor is very well versed in medicine and what meds go with what. A nurse learns this as she goes along. I feel both NP, and MD have a lot of to offer patients.

allnurses Guide · Jul 6, 2014

Ok
But honestly a doctor that spends 1000's of hours learning and practicing the 4 years worth of training in medicine he received is MUCH different than a nurse who "learns" by watching the MD's practice medicine.

So what about NPs that have practiced for four years and have 1000s of hours of direct practice time diagnosing, prescribing, interpreting, and managing?

If they are not equal to their colleagues in medicine why are many NPs on the faculty at medical schools?

allnurses Guide · Jul 6, 2014

Just a thought. The term "Midlevel" to describe NP is very demeaning to Nurse Practitioners and is a term used some insecure Doctors to berate NP and make themselves feel superior which sadly is supported by the AMA but not the ANA. The term came from Dr. to describe their Physicians Assistant's.

It's even more demeaning to nurses and other licensed health care affiliates.

The term "mid-level" actually came from the DEA when they were first giving out Controlled Substances prescribing authority. Unfortunately it stuck.

Ruby Vee, BSN · Jul 7, 2014

Just a thought. The term "Midlevel" to describe NP is very demeaning to Nurse Practitioners and is a term used some insecure Doctors to berate NP and make themselves feel superior which sadly is supported by the AMA but not the ANA. The term came from Dr. to describe their Physicians Assistant's.

What?

KansasFNP · Jul 16, 2014

It always interests me to see posts like this on allnurses. I live and practice in rural Kansas at a Federally Qualified Health Center. In this facility, I am one of 6 nurse practitioners. The medical director for the clinic is a... drumroll... nurse practitioner. A physician sits on the Board of Directors and is the "supervising" physician for the nurse practitioners. This clinic has operated in this fashion for 20 years. The patients within our clinic, and I may be biased here, receive top quality, evidence-based care regardless of their ability to pay. The point of my story? In my area of the world, there is certainly not an oversaturation of qualified providers. Quite the contrary, there is an abundant shortage of health care providers at all levels. I am treated as an equal by all of my local colleagues, physicians, PA's, and other NP's alike. There is no discrimination based on what school you graduated from. There is no turf war between physicians and non-physician providers. There is PLENTY of work for all of us.

futureeastcoastNP · Jul 16, 2014

It always interests me to see posts like this on allnurses. I live and practice in rural Kansas at a Federally Qualified Health Center. In this facility, I am one of 6 nurse practitioners. The medical director for the clinic is a... drumroll... nurse practitioner. A physician sits on the Board of Directors and is the "supervising" physician for the nurse practitioners. This clinic has operated in this fashion for 20 years. The patients within our clinic, and I may be biased here, receive top quality, evidence-based care regardless of their ability to pay. The point of my story? In my area of the world, there is certainly not an oversaturation of qualified providers. Quite the contrary, there is an abundant shortage of health care providers at all levels. I am treated as an equal by all of my local colleagues, physicians, PA's, and other NP's alike. There is no discrimination based on what school you graduated from. There is no turf war between physicians and non-physician providers. There is PLENTY of work for all of us.

That's because you're in rural Kansas. Rural and poverty-sticken areas are typically the last areas to become saturated for any career, because they are undesirable locations to live. The oversaturation of nurse practitioners may not have extended to those locations yet, but for those that want to live in nice, high income beachfront towns or major cities with lots of culture, it's a different story.

Physicians, on the other hand, can usually find a job almost anywhere because they're smart enough to keep supply low and demand high EVERYWHERE in the country. Nurse practitioners aren't doing that - they are increasing the numbers of nurse practitioners at an alarming rate (the number of nurse practitioners has more than doubled in the last few years). Meanwhile, the US supply of physicians has barely changed from year to year. Result? A typical physician has 0 chance of unemployment, often has a job before residency ends, and can pretty much live wherever they want. I've never seen a physician complaining about their job search - ever. I see daily posts on this website about unemployed nurse practitioners.

allnurses Guide · Jul 17, 2014

There are sick people that need care across the country, in both rural and urban settings, and there are not enough providers to care for them.

Keeping people without care so a profession can keep the "demand" high (and salary high) is unethical and an embarrassment to health care in this country.

It is not the "right" way.

CantDecideUsername · Jul 17, 2014

Keeping people without care so a profession can keep the "demand" high (and salary high) is unethical and an embarrassment to health care in this country.
It is not the "right" way.

I dont think that's what the above poster was saying.

He/she was just explaining why NP's cannot find jobs as quickly as MD's in urban areas

futureeastcoastNP · Jul 18, 2014

There are sick people that need care across the country, in both rural and urban settings, and there are not enough providers to care for them.
Keeping people without care so a profession can keep the "demand" high (and salary high) is unethical and an embarrassment to health care in this country.
It is not the "right" way.

You really need to drop this self-righteous attitude. The oversupply of nurse practitioners has nothing to do with "improving access" and everything to do with greed. Greed on the part of schools wanting to cash in on the NP craze (especially for profit schools), and greed on the part of the NP accreditation boards who turn a blind eye with the thinking that more nurse practitioners means more members and thus more power/money.

In addition, you also need to understand how the market works. You're correct that there are not enough providers to care for everyone, but this is also a result of greedy employers who do not wish to cut into profits by hiring another provider and would rather their current providers see twice as many patients. Increasing the number of providers does not suddenly increase access, all it does is create an employers market that allows them to offer lower salaries and fire people more readily.

As a very clear example, look at the RN level. The number of registered nurses graduating every year has steadily increased and we now have a huge oversupply in many part of the country. Has this led to better staffing ratios and more access for patients? No, if anything staffing ratios have become worse. All it has done is give hospitals/employers all of the bargaining power and led to to stagnating wages, unemployed new graduates, and increased responsibility on employed nurses.

The reality is that the NP market is becoming saturated, and now new graduates are facing the same choice many RN new grads have had to deal with - moving to either the boonies or a dangerous ghetto in order to find a job. It shouldn't be that way, and increasing the supply of nurse practitioners will not help increase access to people because it's simply not that simple. All it will do is turn the NP profession into low paid, easily replaceable, labor class position.

CantDecideUsername · Jul 18, 2014

You really need to drop this self-righteous attitude. The oversupply of nurse practitioners has nothing to do with "improving access" and everything to do with greed. Greed on the part of schools wanting to cash in on the NP craze (especially for profit schools), and greed on the part of the NP accreditation boards who turn a blind eye with the thinking that more nurse practitioners means more members and thus more power/money.
In addition, you also need to understand how the market works. You're correct that there are not enough providers to care for everyone, but this is also a result of greedy employers who do not wish to cut into profits by hiring another provider and would rather their current providers see twice as many patients. Increasing the number of providers does not suddenly increase access, all it does is create an employers market that allows them to offer lower salaries and fire people more readily.
As a very clear example, look at the RN level. The number of registered nurses graduating every year has steadily increased and we now have a huge oversupply in many part of the country. Has this led to better staffing ratios and more access for patients? No, if anything staffing ratios have become worse. All it has done is give hospitals/employers all of the bargaining power and led to to stagnating wages, unemployed new graduates, and increased responsibility on employed nurses.
The reality is that the NP market is becoming saturated, and now new graduates are facing the same choice many RN new grads have had to deal with - moving to either the boonies or a dangerous ghetto in order to find a job. It shouldn't be that way, and increasing the supply of nurse practitioners will not help increase access to people because it's simply not that simple. All it will do is turn the NP profession into low paid, easily replaceable, labor class position.

Well said. I couldn't agree more. Having online/for-profit schools pump out more NP's will not help more people get access to care. The people who aren't seeing health professionals are those who cannot afford it/have no insurance. Having fresh batches of NP' every year doesn't solve that problem- because let's face it... No ones working for free. Everyone works to pay the bills.