Why is it MEN seem to get along better in this field than WOMEN??!!!

Torachan · May 12, 2004

Upset to many people

fergus51 · May 12, 2004

You think this bb is bad? You should see the student doctor ones!!! And they aren't female dominated either:)

LovePeaceJoy, hopefully you will be able to have a rotation as a student on the unit you are interested in. That way you already know the atmosphere before applying for work. If not, I would suggest just asking. Word of mouth in the nursing world goes a long way. I have found this bb to be an EXCELLENT asset when I was looking into a new job. All these great male and female nurses helped me out immensely with inside scoops.

mother/babyRN, RN · May 12, 2004

This is news to me...I haven't found there to be a difference....Guess I have just been lucky....Any problems or concerns that have arisen in my experience were equal between the men and women. Women were as aggressive or assertive and men were as emotional or catty. Both were smart and saavy...Lucky me..

mother/babyRN, RN · May 12, 2004

And to the above poster still in nursing school...Cattiness or pettiness is everywhere. You get out of the experience what you bring into it..Nurses are no more expected to be held on pedestals than anyone else....If you aren't catty or don't tolerate it, you won't have a problem with it...Bring your business and publishing experience to nursing, which is a profession with flaws like any other....The good points, however, far surpass the flaws.....You will run into all sorts of people in nursing. Take from it what you give. Patients know who the good nurses are..If you want to run into good nurses, be one...Don't worry about anyone else. Worry about you! And good luck...

nursemike, ASN, RN · May 12, 2004

I mentioned my theory that men are more evolved to work collectively on another thread, and I think Monist had a point about the tacit recognition that one could get one's butt kicked tending to inhibit our agressive behaviors. But I've worked on some pretty catty construction crews, too, and I now work with some fine people of both genders.

I didn't get an A in anatomy without noticing that men and women are different, but I do believe the collective differences between genders are often less significant than the individual differences between any two people. On the other hand, I have been advised to consider administration (not interested) because women take orders more readily from men.

In my personal experience, I have occassionally been bemused that eight competent, professional, female nurses won't even attempt to lift a patient until I or another male orderly is present. If no male orderly is available, they'll settle for a female, and in fairness a lot of us do have more experience at it, but it often seems they just want a guy there to be in charge of the guy stuff.

It has also been my experience, and may be reflected in some of these posts, that we all seem to do better in a co-ed environment. I'm also curious as to whether gay men have the same experiences as straight men.

As for the idea that gender tendencies are hard-wired and insurmountable, my tom cat goes across the street every day to bathe my neighbors' kittens. He definitely is not the father, but he was like this even before he was neutered. If a cat can rise above stereotypes, maybe it's worth trying for people, too.

mother/babyRN, RN · May 12, 2004

Not only interesting and poignant, but very well said. Haven't had that happen with me yet (nurses taking orders more readily from men or waiting to do something until a male orderly is there to help). In my case, I get chastized for trying to do too much myself, but that might be because I come from an older variety of nurses...Now a days few of the nurses I know have the luxury of precious assistance like you describe...And, having worked for both men and women, it pains me to say that when a man is free of all the sterotypical sexual harrassment stuff, I have genuinely enjoyed working for them more than for most of the women in charge, simply because they are or have been more respectful. That said, I still feel, as you said, that things operate on an individual basis...And you are right, maybe we can take lessons from cats...

Stitchie · May 12, 2004

h-o-r-m-o-n-e-s:chuckle

hmm. too simple. still no easy answer for me. i want to think that we're all made with differences that are more apparent at times. i know many who rise above the hormonal hell that pregnancy and menopause have thrown them into. they are still capable of rational, intellectual discussion and productivity even in the throes of hormonal turmoil.

hormones rule some women, just as the quest for power drives others. would you say hillary clinton is a hormone-riddled, petty, catty 'girl' or would you say she is a power-driven woman? who happens to behave like a man would, and is therefore punished in the media because she will not conform to standard sexist views.

i think bringing this argument down to 'hormones' in does a real disservice to women who are trying to change perceptions of the cattiness, pettiness and general 'eat their young' attitude we see in nursing today. i don't mean this as a slam. just imo.

women are more inclined to be emotional, having been encouraged to become emotional warriors as children -- think of all those "mean girls" we knew in grade school! they were the worst. they could say things and do things that could, and did, break hearts.

men are encouraged to become physical warriors before they can walk. therefore that's how arguments are settled: lots of macho posturing.

part of my difficulty with the "hormone" argument is that some women chose to rise above it, to give to their profession in a fully intelligent, feminine, intellectual capacity, whether they be mothers, physicians, senators, mrs. fields, or nurses.

it's all about our choices, especially choices women make. it's something my mother instilled in my sister and me: choices give you freedom. freedom from bad jobs, bad relationships, toxic environments. recognize them for the gift they are. that is the essence of my feminist beliefs.

why should we limit our choices to cattiness, pettiness and crying when things don't go our way? why can't we appreciate the fact that men have a wonderful capacity for dealing with the situation at hand, fixing it, moving beyond it once it is done? i, for one, love the fact that my husband can zero in on a problem, fix it, and be done with it. it makes arguing with him rational rather than emotional; i also love the fact that he has cried with me over our struggles to have a family and the heartbreak we have encountered along the adoption route. but that's another post.

why do men get along better? because they can. why do women pout and gossip? because they can.

instead. why do we not look to see what lessons we can learn from each other's styles and celebrate our differences?

mother/babyRN, RN · May 12, 2004

I don't know where you are from Stitchie, but I just don't see the problems you outline...Men don't get along better than women....Or maybe I just seem to get along with everyone and don't notice what you are noticing. Could be growing up with four brothers just makes me accustomed to the male environment..And specific personality types come into play. What might bother some women doesn't bother some men...I haven't run into the difficulty you seem to be describing....As I said before, lucky me...

Torachan · May 12, 2004

Upset to many people

StNeotser, ASN, RN · May 12, 2004

bingo! this is just one reason why this woman will never vote for a female president of the united states of america!

whyever not? i am from the uk and spent most of my school years with a female head of state and female prime minister (margaret thatcher) she did a damn good job. i'm finding far too much female misogyny in the usa.

redwinggirlie · May 12, 2004

Reading the post, I really don't see a men or women RN problem. She just had a bad day and is comparing to her brother. We are all the same in the RN respect and people will react to our personalities, not our sex for the most part. And , of course, to the care we give. Don't see a problem where I work. As far as "cattiness", well, it goes from floor to floor. I believe it's just talk from how the night is going. We all appreciate each other. That's what it takes. Not our gender.

stbernardclub · May 12, 2004

When I was in nursing school, there were 3 men in the class of 55. By the second semester, one failed due to cheating and one of them should have been thrown out for vulger sexist remarks.The 3rd guy was a gay engineer who was at the top of the class with grades, but I witnessed him leave a woman on a bed pan sideways because he just could not handle the situation. When I hit the floor in Icu with my first job, another bad experience with male nurses happened. There were 2 male nurses there, both from agencies. One claimed his seat when he came in and never got up unless he had to, he would actually call out orders to other nurses and asst. like he was a king. The other male nurse was getting ready to leave for graduate school, and it was not uncommen to clean up his patients rooms of un- emptied bed pans and bloody gauze.Now as for the female nurses, I was shocked to see so many woman hate each other and want to ruin each other over competetive reasons. i was so shocked, having had been a lab tech for 10 years and have worked with many people, to see how nurses could be with one another. I can probably count on 2 hands how many female nurses I have looked at and thought " now this is a good person who is a great nurse"

I think what happened is, many go into nursing today for the money,and they sure act like they have.If your a good hearted nurse reading this who is hurt when you see acts of harm towards others at work...God bless you and keep up the good work.Someone will witness your great work and strive to be on your level. sandy