Why is it MEN seem to get along better in this field than WOMEN??!!!

[1BlessedRN]

Hello this was brought up to me so now I'm sharing it with you all, I had a new R.N. nurse come to me in tears because another R.N. treated and talked to her very badly when she asked her basic questions, and in the midst of her tears she stated her brother was also a new nurse and doctors even help him when he had a problems she didn't seem to understand why women wouldn't like to help women, I have also seem to witness in this field men do seem to get along alot better than women, you will find a few nurses that will help you when in need but that is a very few, I don't know if it's due to the shortage everybody is overworked or underpaid, but we are killing the younger generation of nurses who do try and probaly will oneday make good nurses if they can handle the stressful enviroment any suggestions?

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

marie, i totally understand and agree with where you're coming from. speaking as the devil's advocate and to present a different perspective...once upon a time, women were not encouraged to speak their minds for it wasn't lady like. these repressed feelings manifested themselves into facetious, catty and indirect (passive/aggressive) behaviors. we were conditioned and brainwashed that a lady that speaks her mind is nothing but a *****. now today, our views are much more progressive and realistic. many women (such as myself) feel empowered when i'm called a *****. just for the fact that women are still called that but when men assert themselves, they're just being 'men'....well obviously we can see the double standard. in the meantime, there are (too) many residual women still unable or uncomfortable saying what they mean and meaning what they say, so it comes across as cattiness. but there are so many MORE women, such as yourself and other posters, that are secure in themselves and will call a spade a spade and that's to be embraced. my point is until all people can communicate with vindiction and self-assurance, these stereotypes and deep-rooted behaviors will remain. so definitely, continue to speak for yourself and only yourself, but in the meantime, we have to recognize that we're not going to change human nature, however conditioned. we just have to acknowledge the reality of the big picture.

Speaking your mind is great. Being a ***** is not. One of the "male" traits some posters seem to admire is essentially just knowing when saying the wrong thing will get your teeth knocked down your throat (a skill not all men have mastered.) A big part of the problems alluded to in this thread are just a matter of failing to distinguish assertive behavior from aggressive (and/or passive/aggressive) behavior. Discretion isn't just the better part of valor, it's also a good way to get along with others. Not that I mean to read more into your words than you intended--it's just that I can think of a few truly disagreeable people who would probably say the exact same thing.

[leslie :-D]

Speaking your mind is great. Being a ***** is not. One of the "male" traits some posters seem to admire is essentially just knowing when saying the wrong thing will get your teeth knocked down your throat (a skill not all men have mastered.) A big part of the problems alluded to in this thread are just a matter of failing to distinguish assertive behavior from aggressive (and/or passive/aggressive) behavior. Discretion isn't just the better part of valor, it's also a good way to get along with others. Not that I mean to read more into your words than you intended--it's just that I can think of a few truly disagreeable people who would probably say the exact same thing.

i understand your point. and assertion should not be confused for aggression. but passive/aggressive behavior is a totally different ballgame because it is so ambiguous and indirect. with assertiveness or aggression, a person's intent is clear. speaking from a female perspective however, there are still too many women that are merely asserting themselves but still are labeled as b**ches- that is what i'm referring to. i do not like aggression in anyway shape or form but i still maintain that if a woman is direct, she is still labeled untowardly. but in my book, that's absolutely ok. if someone feels threatened by someone unafraid to speak their mind (and i don't mean aggressively), then that's their problem, period. i would much rather (like always and 100%) have some be assertive then this passive/aggressive stuff....i just can't handle that.

[Stitchie]

Just because that majority of the posts have label some females as whatever, doesn't mean that the majority rules.

Your behavior that you choose is you own personal behavior, no matter what you call it.

Never would i consider my behavior or thought as "female". And that completely works for me.

Being a woman has been a great adventure for me, personally and professionally. I chose how this female behaves. That is the only thing I'm able to control, and it's taken a long time to learn that. Since I'm not planning to go to the 'other side' any time in my lifetime, being female is all I have to draw on.

I don't need to be abrasive, judgmental, aggressive or intimidating; I can be my own person, make my own choices, and support other people in their choices. I will fix what needs to be fixed, and if there is someone who is more expert than I, I will ask for help. As far as I'm concerned, that is using assertion to uphold a professional image.

IMO, not recognizing that feminine strength differs from male strength, behavior, socialization does a disservice to both sexes.

We're different, and I believe those differences should be celebrated, not cause for dissention.

We bring differences to the table, that's for sure, but that's what teamwork is all about. I work with men in the ED every shift and they are who they are. I enjoy that; they bring different insight into the profession.

[Furball]

I dunno....I've witnessed some male nurses endure the same crap that female nurses do. It's crappy all over! :rotfl: Edited to add: To the peron who will never vote for a female presidential candidate...it must be boring to live life so closed minded.

[Ned the Red]

I'll strike out in a different direction with this thread. And, this idea just now came to me so, it isn't fully formed and I'm not sure even I understand what I want to say. But, bear with me.... again, as one who's not yet in nursing.

Working in the field is high stress for everyone. And you need to work well as a team. Your team can begin to develope an "us vs them" mentality and sometimes one of the people on the team becomes "them" because of the stress. In the "heat of battle" it's difficult to be introspective and see how your actions might impact others and how the dynamic of the group can get off base.

And, is it possible that a group that's all women (or all men for that matter) might react less well to the stress than would a mixed group?

I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm getting at is that it isn't a men vs women thing as much as it is a question of needing a group that has varied backgrounds, perspectives, etc.

Hope someone out there can find a kernal of truth in all that!

[bbear]

IMO, not recognizing that feminine strength differs from male strength, behavior, socialization does a disservice to both sexes.

We're different, and I believe those differences should be celebrated, not cause for dissention.

Bravo, Stitchie! I truly wish there were far more people who thought that way. Personally, I never quite understood how burning a bra and then donning a jock strap was any kind of victory.

Here's a few tidbits of insight about us men for you ladies:

Basically, we're rather simple creatures with very simple needs. Not altogether that different from an amoeba, actually. Feed us, flatter us, tolerate our flatus, and we tend to remain fairly content.

But you're confusing us. We want to please you but we've lost track of what it is you want from us. You want us to be strong, but then we risk being labeled insensitive. So we try to be more sensitive, but then we are told we're being wimps. Don't forget, we have a short attention span and we give up easily. LOL

In all seriousness, I do wish women would embrace their delightfully exquisite charactersitics rather than attempting to suppress them. It is those very traits, after all, that make them who they are. I am truly envious of so many of those characteristics (although I'll pass on menstruation).

And didn't we already have a female President? I cannot recall that Hillary blew up any foreign lands in a fit of cattiness.

[Energizer Bunny]

Blame it on hormones! LOLOLOLOLOL!

[Farkinott, RN]

i understand your point. and assertion should not be confused for aggression. but passive/aggressive behavior is a totally different ballgame because it is so ambiguous and indirect. with assertiveness or aggression, a person's intent is clear. speaking from a female perspective however, there are still too many women that are merely asserting themselves but still are labeled as b**ches- that is what i'm referring to. i do not like aggression in anyway shape or form but i still maintain that if a woman is direct, she is still labeled untowardly. but in my book, that's absolutely ok. if someone feels threatened by someone unafraid to speak their mind (and i don't mean aggressively), then that's their problem, period. i would much rather (like always and 100%) have some be assertive then this passive/aggressive stuff....i just can't handle that.

earl58 i agree with you but I don't agree with being apologistic, to speak your mind. I would love it that ould say your piece without wondering if you will be slagged off for being a bloke!

[Farkinott, RN]

I'll strike out in a different direction with this thread. And, this idea just now came to me so, it isn't fully formed and I'm not sure even I understand what I want to say. But, bear with me.... again, as one who's not yet in nursing.

Working in the field is high stress for everyone. And you need to work well as a team. Your team can begin to develope an "us vs them" mentality and sometimes one of the people on the team becomes "them" because of the stress. In the "heat of battle" it's difficult to be introspective and see how your actions might impact others and how the dynamic of the group can get off base.

And, is it possible that a group that's all women (or all men for that matter) might react less well to the stress than would a mixed group?

I know I'm rambling but I guess what I'm getting at is that it isn't a men vs women thing as much as it is a question of needing a group that has varied backgrounds, perspectives, etc.

Hope someone out there can find a kernal of truth in all that!

Good post, thanks

[Stitchie]

Bravo, Stitchie! I truly wish there were far more people who thought that way. Personally, I never quite understood how burning a bra and then donning a jock strap was any kind of victory.

Here's a few tidbits of insight about us men for you ladies:

Basically, we're rather simple creatures with very simple needs. Not altogether that different from an amoeba, actually. Feed us, flatter us, tolerate our flatus, and we tend to remain fairly content.

But you're confusing us. We want to please you but we've lost track of what it is you want from us. You want us to be strong, but then we risk being labeled insensitive. So we try to be more sensitive, but then we are told we're being wimps. Don't forget, we have a short attention span and we give up easily. LOL

In all seriousness, I do wish women would embrace their delightfully exquisite charactersitics rather than attempting to suppress them. It is those very traits, after all, that make them who they are. I am truly envious of so many of those characteristics (although I'll pass on menstruation).

And didn't we already have a female President? I cannot recall that Hillary blew up any foreign lands in a fit of cattiness.

So you're saying GWB did do? Sorry couldn't resist.

I think of nursing as a profession, not a calling. I think that if more men come to nursing as a profession it will change the way that nurses are perceived. I think one reason men stay away from nursing is because of the stereotyped images of nurses: saints, angels of mercy, or sex-kitten pillow fluffers. If more men were to become nurses, then the images would change, the professional perception would change, and the wages would go up.

Still, in this country, women are paid less on the dollar for identical jobs -- last I heard (and I admit I don't have up to date statistics) it was something like 75% of what men earn. I, for one, could certainly stand to be paid 25% more for what I do.

Female nurses need to make choices that will enhance their professional images; those who engage in the backstabbing, gossiping and 'eating our young' do nothing to enhance that image.

That being said, I've seen many professionals of all levels, (from EKG tech to attending MD) take part in many a gossip fest on a slow ED night. It's just human nature to be curious about others, (makes me crazy to think what they say about me, new person :chuckle ). My DH does the same thing; he's an engineering type, about as rational as they get, and he still gets a kick out of gossiping about his co-workers -- especially the few he doesn't like.

[pentua]

When I was in nursing school, there were 3 men in the class of 55. By the second semester, one failed due to cheating and one of them should have been thrown out for vulger sexist remarks.The 3rd guy was a gay engineer who was at the top of the class with grades, but I witnessed him leave a woman on a bed pan sideways because he just could not handle the situation. When I hit the floor in Icu with my first job, another bad experience with male nurses happened. There were 2 male nurses there, both from agencies. One claimed his seat when he came in and never got up unless he had to, he would actually call out orders to other nurses and asst. like he was a king. The other male nurse was getting ready to leave for graduate school, and it was not uncommen to clean up his patients rooms of un- emptied bed pans and bloody gauze.Now as for the female nurses, I was shocked to see so many woman hate each other and want to ruin each other over competetive reasons. i was so shocked, having had been a lab tech for 10 years and have worked with many people, to see how nurses could be with one another. I can probably count on 2 hands how many female nurses I have looked at and thought " now this is a good person who is a great nurse"

I think what happened is, many go into nursing today for the money,and they sure act like they have.If your a good hearted nurse reading this who is hurt when you see acts of harm towards others at work...God bless you and keep up the good work.Someone will witness your great work and strive to be on your level. sandy

Well it's pity you have bad experiance with the male nurses that you have come across. I don't think all men are like that. I once had a female supervisor who was very dictatorial at work. Gossip was going on unit about how little she has to say at home because of the authority the husband has on her. She in turn fully use her authority when is at work.:rotfl:

[bbear]

Still, in this country, women are paid less on the dollar for identical jobs -- last I heard (and I admit I don't have up to date statistics) it was something like 75% of what men earn. I, for one, could certainly stand to be paid 25% more for what I do.

I recently read a research paper that addressed some of the reasons why women's salaries tend to be lower than men's. One of the primary reasons they came up with (which surprised me because it hadn't really occurred to me) was because women are far less assertive than men when it comes to negotiating and/or re-negotiating salary and benefit expectations with their employers. According to this research article (and I wish I could remember now where I read it), women are many, many times more likely to simply accept what is offered them, whereas a far greater percentage of men will demand (and receive) more. This same article also stated that women are reluctant to use many of their employer provided benefits, such as flexible spending accounts and childcare subsidies, because they fear it makes them appear needy and weak.

Pretty interesting, huh?