Why do I keep hearing stuff about waiting lists?

adnstudent2007 · May 29, 2006

This waitlist thing is new to me. At my community college, there is no waitlist. You are accepted almost entirely on your GPA (if you've completed all your pre-reqs). If you don't get in, you have the option of retaking pre-reqs to up your grades to get in the following semester or chosing a different career path. To me that seems nicer than having to wait for YEARS!

hospitalstaph · May 29, 2006

I am sure that my opinion will not be a popular one, but I don't agree with waiting lists! :chair: I think that you should get in because you are the most qualified, not because you were the most patient. I am so tired of hearing about 4.0 students (or other criteria) being turned away because they were beat out by someone that had been on the "list" for 2 years. No GPA is not everything and schools should consider interview, essay, etc, but since when is extreme patience a sign that you will make a good nurse?

Sorry just my opinion and good luck to you all!

T

HM2VikingRN, RN · May 30, 2006

It is because there are a greater number of qualified applicants that have completed prereqs than spaces for students. Also, known as supply and demand.
Nursing School is not like other academics. You cannot merely add a few seats to a couple of classrooms, a video monitor or two, and thus increase the number of students. It is SUBSTANTIALLY more complex than that. Thus the inability of colleges to easily increase openings.

Lack of Nursing Educators=lack of trainig seats. MN is short 79 nursing instructors!

HARRN2b · May 30, 2006

The governments idea is to bring in more foreigners. Previously there was a cap on the number of foreign nurses that could come in. Per the new immigration bill, that cap has been removed. We have opened the floodgates so to speak. The hospital corps are big lobbyists and this is what they want. I know this is not a popular opinion around here, but the main idea is too keep wages depressed. This same impact is being felt through all segments of society. Look at some of the other career choices and see what they used to pay and what they pay today.

adnstudent2007 · May 30, 2006

The governments idea is to bring in more foreigners. Previously there was a cap on the number of foreign nurses that could come in. Per the new immigration bill, that cap has been removed. We have opened the floodgates so to speak. The hospital corps are big lobbyists and this is what they want. I know this is not a popular opinion around here, but the main idea is too keep wages depressed. This same impact is being felt through all segments of society. Look at some of the other career choices and see what they used to pay and what they pay today.

:confused: I hope this isn't a stupid question, but I don't get the connection. The school's can only take in so many students because they only have so many instructors. In my class, a group didn't have a clinical instructor until the day before clinical started because they had to go find someone QUICK! (It sure made the students nervous!) How is the government keeping nurses from wanting to be clinical instructors?

Dublin37 · May 30, 2006

I am sure that my opinion will not be a popular one, but I don't agree with waiting lists! :chair: I think that you should get in because you are the most qualified, not because you were the most patient. I am so tired of hearing about 4.0 students (or other criteria) being turned away because they were beat out by someone that had been on the "list" for 2 years. No GPA is not everything and schools should consider interview, essay, etc, but since when is extreme patience a sign that you will make a good nurse?
Sorry just my opinion and good luck to you all!
T

I am one of "those" who got in by a wait list. Although at our school, 2/3 of stu. are accepted by GPA. You don't go on the wait list until you are done with most of your pre-req's. I am VERY thankful for the list. It did take me three, yes THREE years to get in, but i was willing to wait. I am a C student in the pre-req's, a C+ student overall. I have my BA, but that didn't help me. I have NEVER worked so hard for those grades (the C's) and I am proud of them. Should I be tossed out because I do not get A's and B's? I don't think so. A GPA, does not a nurse make. I have spoken with many nurses who had C's and are amazing nurses. They have encouraged me on. At our school if you had an A or B+ average you would be in within a year of finishing your pre-req's.

I'm sure it's frustrating to hear about us lowly C students getting in ahead of the "deserving" A's and B's, but give us a break, our hearts want this just as much. And that's just my opinion.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · May 30, 2006

I hope this isn't a stupid question, but I don't get the connection. The school's can only take in so many students because they only have so many instructors. In my class, a group didn't have a clinical instructor until the day before clinical started because they had to go find someone QUICK! (It sure made the students nervous!) How is the government keeping nurses from wanting to be clinical instructors?

The government is not keeping nurses from wanting to be instructors...finances and conditions are.

The vast majority of nurses that are qualified to teach can easily earn much more and under easier circumstances in other roles, rather than teach. They can also do so under less risk to their licenses.

Medical schools attract attendings to teach med students/interns/residents by offering a better set of conditions than could be obtained otherwise and promote them being published, by facilitating conditions that permit such. Nursing schools do not generally offer an improvement over "outside" roles.

A medical attending generally will have lower pay, but little "grunt" work than the standard office MD. They have a set of "indentured servants" in the form of (poorly!) paid interns, residents and fellows that spend most of their time monitoring those below them in rank, doing night duty, teaching and supervising. They rotate in every 1-3 weeks, work for 1-3 weeks and then have a 1-6 week break which is used for clinic, research, studies, and publishing. They are rarely called at night or at home, and then only by a senior MD and they work more regular hours. This offers substantial rewards, prestige and convenience, in place of higher pay. And as far as responsibility, all interns have graduated from med school and bear much legal liability for their actions and most are 24years or older.

In contrast, a nursing instructor, who gets paid similar or less than a 36-40/week staff nurse deals w/ the following: a clinical group(or two or three) of 10-12 individuals over the age of 17, that have no tested ability of anything greater than some prerequisites. Most carry 2 or three groups (20-36) and rarely have any assistants. They carry the major legal liability for them and there actions. They will be spending 24-36 hour supervising their clinicals, 4-12 hours at the facility preparing the staff, preparing assignments, researching possible clinical experiences. They may be receiving calls at all times from the clinical students and from facility staff. And most of them teach classes 6-18 hours per week, have required office hours (6-1o hours per week), required lab assistance 3-9 hours per week and time to prep for classes.

That is not accounting for the irritation of listening to students argue about trivialities: uniforms, grades, case studies, bringing their kids to class, petty excuses, etc.

As a staff nurse, they could make the same amount, or more, by working 36-40 hours a week.

Now nursing schools could require additional tuition and pay them better. After all nursing school is much more labor and equipment intensive than accounting. But how many nurses are going to pay the same tuition as medical school and graduate w/incredible debt to pay off?

Multicollinearity, BSN, RN · May 30, 2006

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Faeriewand, ASN, RN · May 30, 2006

I am one of "those" who got in by a wait list. Although at our school, 2/3 of stu. are accepted by GPA. You don't go on the wait list until you are done with most of your pre-req's. I am VERY thankful for the list. It did take me three, yes THREE years to get in, but i was willing to wait. I am a C student in the pre-req's, a C+ student overall. I have my BA, but that didn't help me. I have NEVER worked so hard for those grades (the C's) and I am proud of them. Should I be tossed out because I do not get A's and B's? I don't think so. A GPA, does not a nurse make. I have spoken with many nurses who had C's and are amazing nurses. They have encouraged me on. At our school if you had an A or B+ average you would be in within a year of finishing your pre-req's.
I'm sure it's frustrating to hear about us lowly C students getting in ahead of the "deserving" A's and B's, but give us a break, our hearts want this just as much. And that's just my opinion.

Wow Dublin! 3 years! I'm not an A student myself but mostly make B's and a few A's. (NOt in science tho!) Those pre-req's are hard and if you had a really hard teacher well..... Mine was easy and I got a B in Anat/Phys 1. Taking 2 this summer with a different teacher and I'm nervous! I will be happy to get a C!

Your perseverence paid off and I'm sure you will make a good nurse. :pumpiron:

What is good is if you live in an area that has a choice. Like my area. BSN has no wait list but goes by good grades. CC has long wait lists and you get on the list once you are finished with pre-reqs. Everybody waits the same. No favoratism. Then there is the LVN program I"m going to that is supported by public funds and you take a test to get in. Those with the highest score get in as long as they've got everything required by the office like a SS card, taken the pre-reqs from the school, and 3 good professional references. Then there are the private LVN schools that you pay an arm and a leg for. But hey you can get in in just a few months. Yup those you wait for too! :)

It's good to have a choice of all these programs.

Dublin37 · May 30, 2006

wow dublin! 3 years! i'm not an a student myself but mostly make b's and a few a's. (not in science tho!) those pre-req's are hard and if you had a really hard teacher well..... mine was easy and i got a b in anat/phys 1. taking 2 this summer with a different teacher and i'm nervous! i will be happy to get a c!
your perseverence paid off and i'm sure you will make a good nurse. :pumpiron:
what is good is if you live in an area that has a choice. like my area. bsn has no wait list but goes by good grades. cc has long wait lists and you get on the list once you are finished with pre-reqs. everybody waits the same. no favoratism. then there is the lvn program i"m going to that is supported by public funds and you take a test to get in. those with the highest score get in as long as they've got everything required by the office like a ss card, taken the pre-reqs from the school, and 3 good professional references. then there are the private lvn schools that you pay an arm and a leg for. but hey you can get in in just a few months. yup those you wait for too! :)
it's good to have a choice of all these programs.

hey thanks faeriewand! omg, the teacher for a & p was killer!!! i learned amazing stuff, excellent teacher, but dang.... theeeee hardest class i have ever taken! the other pre-req's i took from other teachers were also tough, but not as tough. still, it was all a lot more daunting then my undergrad work in sociology! it's the same choices here, though i wouldn't have had the gpa for any of the bsn programs, you have to have a 3.5 overall! eeeek! i did consider the lvn route through rop, but the road would have been longer and more intense, and i didn't want to lose out on that time with my kids. this road, though long, has been perfect for me. heather

Faeriewand, ASN, RN · May 30, 2006

hey thanks faeriewand! omg, the teacher for a & p was killer!!!

yikes! this is what i"m afraid of! my last teacher was easy compared to the other teachers at my school that i've heard about. but i have to do it so that is the great motivator.

hospitalstaph · May 30, 2006

I am one of "those" who got in by a wait list. Although at our school, 2/3 of stu. are accepted by GPA. You don't go on the wait list until you are done with most of your pre-req's. I am VERY thankful for the list. It did take me three, yes THREE years to get in, but i was willing to wait. I am a C student in the pre-req's, a C+ student overall. I have my BA, but that didn't help me. I have NEVER worked so hard for those grades (the C's) and I am proud of them. Should I be tossed out because I do not get A's and B's? I don't think so. A GPA, does not a nurse make. I have spoken with many nurses who had C's and are amazing nurses. They have encouraged me on. At our school if you had an A or B+ average you would be in within a year of finishing your pre-req's.
I'm sure it's frustrating to hear about us lowly C students getting in ahead of the "deserving" A's and B's, but give us a break, our hearts want this just as much. And that's just my opinion.

Oh please don't misunderstand what I am saying. One of the CC in our area does not consider GPA (as long as it is 2.5 or above), does not consider your NET test score(only that you passed), and doesn't offer interviews. Do I think that an A student should always get in before a B or C student? No. I am an A-B student and I was chosen over a few 4.0 students because my TEAS score was very high and my interview went very well. So when these three criteria were looked at I came out ahead. To me that seems fair and balanced. I in no way mean that students that get in after being on a wait list are not qualified, my critisism is of the process that some CC's are using to admit students. I think that TEAS/NET scores and interview should be part of the selection process. I think that this can actually help those that are not 4.0 students.

Good luck to you:)

T