Why can't I do everything a RN does as a LPN? We should be equal.

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Why do RN's make more when we practically do the SAME THING. I don't understand how RN's having the ability to start IV's and give a few medications IV push make them more valuable than an LPN. Those extra courses you take to become RN's, heck even BSN's don't add anything clinically. When I am on the floor, WE DO THE SAME THING, yet I take home 30% less than my RN/BSN colleagues. Does anyone else agree that us as LPNS should be able to make the same salary? I hope the Affordable Healthcare Act (AHR) addresses this issue with EQUAL PAY for EQUAL work. We are a lot cheaper to higher than RN's so hopefully the (AHC) will realize this and create more of a demand for efficient LPN's that are easier to train, and cheaper to higher, thus bringing RN wages on par with our wages. It just doesn't make sense for the hospital to pay a RN $25-30/hr to start, while I make $22/hr and have more than 18 years experience. Any thoughts?

I guess we can agree to disagree. You here that same statement "I didn't know what I didn't know" from NP's who went on to medical school. Even though when asked, they will say they do the same thing but we are restricted by physicians. Yet, we back them in support, but yet we "LPNs" have almost the same scope of practice, but limited by the government. Does that government limitation placed on NP's by doctors lobbying government not parallel this same debate? This LPN restriction to me has that same sentiment. I don't know what else to say, but I just can't agree.

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.

You can either go back and get in a bridge program, research financial aid and become an RN, or stay a LPN, it's really that simple.

FYI, NPs are not fighting for the "same pay" :no: they are fighting for proper reimbursement as "providers", they are not "mid-level providers"-CMS has labeled as such-when they are providing care in ALL levels, from primary to tertiary care, at times with little to no supervision; if anything, "clinical provider" is a better choice of words; however, I'm not the CMS either, but the reality is based in evidenced-based practice; you cannot correlate your argument to this comparison; due to the fact there is again, evidenced based practice on MORE education AND experience as a NURSE decreases pt mortality.

You got the experience, either you get the education, or not...it's your choice.

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I guess we can agree to disagree. You here that same statement "I didn't know what I didn't know" from NP's who went on to medical school. Even though when asked, they will say they do the same thing but we are restricted by physicians. Yet, we back them in support, but yet we "LPNs" have almost the same scope of practice, but limited by the government. Does that government limitation placed on NP's by doctors lobbying government not parallel this same debate? This LPN restriction to me has that same sentiment. I don't know what else to say, but I just can't agree.

You keep saying the same thing over and over again, despite being told over and over again that your situation is nothing like a NP's situation. You do not want to understand that YOU do NOT have the same education as a RN, which is why you are not being paid as one. The evidence states that RN's have better patient outcomes compared to LPN's. You are restricted by the government because you do not have the qualifications to perform certain skills.

Not to mention that just about everyone on this thread is AGAINST NP's making the same as a physician when their education level is not the same, so I don't know why you keep bringing that up- it does not make sense....

You obviously can't accept that you do not have the same educational level as a RN, but in reality you don't- which is why you are not paid as one. Everyone keeps saying "you don't know what you don't know" because it is true. It especially makes me worried that you thought wikipedia is an appropriate source for nursing information....

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I guess we can agree to disagree. You here that same statement "I didn't know what I didn't know" from NP's who went on to medical school. Even though when asked they will say they do the same thing but we are restricted by physicians. Yet, we back them in support, but yet we "LPNs" have almost the same scope of practice, but limited by the government. Does that government limitation placed on NP's by doctors lobbying government not parallel this same debate? This LPN restriction to me has that same sentiment. I don't know what else to say, but I just can't agree.[/quote']

We don't have the same scope of practice though. You said yourself in an earlier post that you need to find an RN to do certain tasks for you. That is why they are getting paid more, they are doing more. Personally I am sure it would be annoying to constantly have to worry about a co-workers patients when I am trying to focus on my own. Oh and not all LPNs are "forced" in LTC. I love geriatrics and that is the population I choose to work with.

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Can you please link a study that compared LPNs vs RNs? They don't exist. So how can you make that claim? Second, you can claim NP and Physicians should get the same reimbursement for doing the same thing. Thank you, you made my point. You can't have it both ways. Using research on NPs on "mortality" is a bit extreme when a physician is always on hand just in case something happens out of their control, decreasing mortality. How does referring one to a physician, or having one look over them count? I'm sure LPNs have low mortality rates, we also have physicians we can call when things go out of control. Please find me a LPN study.

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And Mr. Chicago, a lot of times my clinical judgement is better than my nursing coworkers. They ask me what to do a lot of the times. So what does adding another year or schooling or 2 for BSN which is just fluff according to many people who are now RN to BSN. Although administration jobs open up, but regards to floor nursing, there is also no difference.

If its just "fluff" then go get some extra fluff and get the pay increase :)

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Specializes in Critical Care.
Wikipedia is not that difficult, ...

And this is why you get paid less.

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I guess I won't find support here, as a new user I was expecting more backing, I guess I was dead wrong.

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Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.
Can you please link a study that compared LPNs vs RNs? They don't exist. So how can you make that claim? Second, you can claim NP and Physicians should get the same reimbursement for doing the same thing. Thank you, you made my point. You can't have it both ways. Using research on NPs on "mortality" is a bit extreme when a physician is always on hand just in case something happens out of their control, decreasing mortality. How does referring one to a physician, or having one look over them count? I'm sure LPNs have low mortality rates, we also have physicians we can call when things go out of control. Please find me a LPN study.

Here you go, one study for starters:

Conclusions

Higher hospital LPN staffing levels are independently associated with slightly higher rates of mortality and sepsis in trauma patients admitted to Level I or Level II trauma centers.

Source: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6963/12/247#abs

(For the record I am an LPN in the process of bridging to RN )

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Specializes in Pediatrics, Emergency, Trauma.
Can you please link a study that compared LPNs vs RNs? They don't exist. So how can you make that claim? Second, you can claim NP and Physicians should get the same reimbursement for doing the same thing. Thank you, you made my point. You can't have it both ways. Using research on NPs on "mortality" is a bit extreme when a physician is always on hand just in case something happens out of their control, decreasing mortality. How does referring one to a physician, or having one look over them count? I'm sure LPNs have low mortality rates, we also have physicians we can call when things go out of control. Please find me a LPN study.

Because of your limited education, of course you don't think there is a study. Search for nursing skill mix; there are Canadian, European, Korean, and American Studies in stating higher education AND experience have the best skill mix and decrease pt morbidity and mortality.

This was my research and capstone proposal in my BSN program.

As far as "reimbursement", that is NOT proving your point; meaning, thing that Drs only get reimbursement as their pay is grossly oversimplified on your part, and shows the lack of understanding of what pay scales NPs have; having their reimbursement to be limited and wanting more qualifications for reimbursement as oppose to say one category they may want two more is NOT the same pay for physicians. It just isn't, so stop using something you have NO KNOWLEDGE about to

try to prove your argument makes it even MORE of a reason for you to actually go back to school before you decide to debate someone who a. Actually did research on skill mix and look over the ACTUAL studies, and b. has some actual knowledge in CMS and how they propose what a how providers and facilities have criteria in reimbursement.

So, do your research, NOT Wikipedia...go search for nursing skill mix, nursing mortality and morbidity; go on cms.gov and look up nursing outcomes model and search NP reimbursement, and THEN comprehend what, how and WHY the information is presented to you relates to your argument.

I'll wait.

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Specializes in Cath/EP lab, CCU, Cardiac stepdown.

If you're making comparisons why not compare emt and paramedics. Almost the same scope of practice but different pay? Why? Because their training is different. No one is questioning the value of a lpn but the fact is that there are differences between rn and lpn, and those include education, scope of practice, and license.

You are correct in which there is and will continue to be rns who know less than you because of your experience but that is to be expected as nursing is something people build upon. You constantly gripe about how you can just read books and learn on the job what rns can do but that is the whole point. Rns are rns because they read those books, sat in on those lectures, and practiced those skills in clinicals. If you want the same pay then get the same level of training and education. And you're right, you can do it too, just go do it in school to get your rn licensure. You may ask why do you have to be recognized by the government and go to rn school, well it's simple, after all if you're just doing it in the hospital and not in an accredited institute, how can there be regulations for safety. Nurses do follow codes and regulations of practice to ensure the safety of our patients. Because after all, one can argue you can learn any profession just by practicing but we have rn nclex to ensure we are competent, just like how there are lpn exams.

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Specializes in Complex pedi to LTC/SA & now a manager.

And another:

"The suggestion that much of the work done by RNs could be performed by LPNs if their scope of practice were broadened undervalues the role of the RN. The authors refer to the recent study by Needleman and colleagues that found better patient outcomes with increased licensed nursing hours, including LPN hours. 1 But Needleman and colleagues also concluded that keeping the total number of nursing hours constant and increasing the proportion provided by RNs is the most cost-effective approach to improving patient outcomes from nursing care, noting that "greater use of RNs in preference to LPNs appears to pay for itself." Without additional education, the substitution is unlikely to produce the same improved outcomes for patients. - See more at: http://www.nursingcenter.com/lnc/journalarticle?Article_ID=650927#sthash.PVKJeWrs.dpuf

You say there are no studies however I found several in a few seconds in an online search "patient outcome RN vs LPN". There is greater mortality & morbidity by utilizing LPN to replace RN due to difference in educational foundation & skill. Experience is not an equal substitute for education.

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