I've been in two different hospitals in both my first and second semesters and come up against some ROUGH nurses who would rather do everything themselves than let me touch a thing.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that they are BUSY, they have a TO-DO list, they have patients that NEED meds, help, EVERYTHING. But, I'm here to help. I'm wearing these bright purple scrubs not because I like the color, but because I want to learn, I NEED to learn. I will take them to the bathroom, I will bathe them, I will take their vitals, just PLEASE let me.
When I say 80% of the nurses I've followed have done NOTHING with me I am not exaggerating. Why is this? Last week the nurse I was following wouldn't even let me take vitals, VITALS!! I am in my second semester of nursing school, I think I can handle that.
Anyway, I wanted to know whats up with that! I recognize that they are busy. I also recognize the few nurses that have taken me under their wing and shown me SO MUCH. I'm thankful for that, and grateful.
The fact that you compare your military experience to ANYTHING in this discussion gives you the look of arrogance and condescension, where it seems it isn't warranted.
Perhaps your time as a corpsman gave you entirely unrealistic expectations as to what a private-sector hospital functions like?
Your insistence on returning to your military stories has absolutely no bearing on this situation in the slightest. Utterly irrelevant, in fact, but you do like to discuss it....and it only underscores what you are NOT GETTING here.
Why do I bother with such myopic posts? The military experience I related to, as well as EMS experience in previous posts, are example or analogies to similar situations experienced in nursing with patients and students. But from your post, if it ain't nursing experience, it ain't crap. That attitude is arrogant, egotistical, and condescending. But us nursing students don't know anything, right?
Why do I bother with such myopic posts? The military experience I related to, as well as EMS experience in previous posts, are example or analogies to similar situations experienced in nursing with patients and students. But from your post, if it ain't nursing experience, it ain't crap. That attitude is arrogant, egotistical, and condescending. But us nursing students don't know anything, right?
This is a Nursing forum. Therefore, our experience and feelings are based on our experiences in the Nursing world. Frankly, what you did in the military is irrelevant.
You can continue to belabor your incorrect assumption that floor Nurses are responsible for the training and education all you want. It still doesn't make it so.
Floor Nurses are NOT responsible for teaching students. Period. Students are assigned a patient, not a floor Nurse.
Hospitals and facilities give schools permission for their students to rotate through for their clinical experience. Some have said that hospitals and facilities are paid for this. I don't know. Things have changed over the years. Be that as it may, that remuneration does not trickle down to the Nursing staff.
Students are there as guests of the hospital or facility. When I worked the floor, the students didn't bother us. The CI did ask that if there were to be any procedures, would it be ok for the students to observe. Because I actually didn't mind students, I was ok if they asked questions, but it was up to the CI to make sure they were learning what they needed.
Why do I bother with such myopic posts? The military experience I related to, as well as EMS experience in previous posts, are example or analogies to similar situations experienced in nursing with patients and students. But from your post, if it ain't nursing experience, it ain't crap. That attitude is arrogant, egotistical, and condescending. But us nursing students don't know anything, Iright?
Correct. Totally different models and different methodologies as has been explained ad nauseum.
For example, in the critical care areas, if you are doing your job, you will rarely have a Cardiac arrest because you are
assessing for, preventing and treating the dysrhythmias and H's and T's before it gets to that point.
It is unwise to use your name and location on an open international website and post anti-nurse comments and insults.
You really need to cool it with the big dog persona until you are accepted as part of the team or you will be perceived as cocky and abrasive, thus eliminating any opportunities for preceptorships, externships and residencies.
Why do I bother with such myopic posts? The military experience I related to, as well as EMS experience in previous posts, are example or analogies to similar situations experienced in nursing with patients and students. But from your post, if it ain't nursing experience, it ain't crap.
You are demonstrating that you STILL don't get it. We are TALKING about nursing experience, and the relationship between students and nurses. If someone was CEO of a major corporation and then decided he wanted to become a nurse, you know what? He's still a student, and his OUTSIDE of nursing experiences really DON'T mean anything in that setting.
That attitude is arrogant, egotistical, and condescending.
Actually, I find yours to be abrasively and exactly as you just described others to be. YOU place your experience as a corpsman in a light that experienced nurses do not. YOU elevate your status to be above the average nursing student; it is apparent from your posts you are not.
But us nursing students don't know anything, right?
No, NOT what I am saying......MANY students understand the gift that they are being given when a nurse takes time out of his/her schedule for them. MANY students have been able to comprehend what we have been saying for umpty pages now. Unfortunately, as you have so ably demonstrated, some do not.
Students, take note: respecting the time of the floor nurses will get you everywhere. Respecting the position they are in (that is, taking care of PATIENTS while perhaps having you there as a side 'bonus') will help you immensely. Heeding proper decorum and professional courtesy will go a looong way. But an entitled attitude such as shown here will drop you dead in the water.....wondering why you were passed over for a spot your classmate got.
This is an art to simply shadowing an experienced nurse. A lot of knowledge can be gained by watching what the nurse is doing. You can get an idea of how things flow, time management, how to deal with doctors and families, watching procedures etc. You don't always have to be doing something to learn. So if shadowing is the only opportunity you get, then use it wisely.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
But don't you remember being a student nurse?
Yes. And I remember how our clinical instructors had all responsibility for us. We were allowed to observe the nurse if it was something we weren't allowed to do, but for all skills, check offs, and cosigned documentation, we had to go to our instructor. Clinical groups were smaller than what I see on the floors now, too, meaning the instructor wasn't stretched too thin. The only time we were assigned to a nurse was our final semester, when we took a full team of patients- and those nurses volunteered. So did the nurses who acted as preceptors for the practicum clinical.
Of course I do. It was almost 40 years ago, but I remember.
I remember our CI telling us in no uncertain terms that we were guests of the hospital, we were to stay out of the staff's way, and if she heard any complaints about us we would be looking for something else to major in.
I remember going to my CI if I had any questions. She was never very far away, and indeed it sometimes felt that if she had been any closer, we would have been wearing the same uniform.
I remember NOT bothering the floor nurse. At all. For anything. None of us did. We didn't hog the chairs at the nurse's station. We actually came in the day before to do our chart review and gather the information we needed.
At the end of our shift, our CI reviewed our notes, which had been done on scratch paper. Once they passed muster, we re-copied them on a real patient note. We reported off to the floor nurse, and then met for post clinical conference.
I mentioned my Navy corpsman experience previously and some "nurse without a clue" said that corpsmen were just "assistants". Well, as a corpsman, I had my own appointment schedule to see patients, orders labs and xrays, interpret the same, write prescriptions, did minor surgery, sutured, started IV's, gave meds, etc. No, I wasn't a nurse, an APRN, a PA; just a corpsman. I also helped to train other corpsmen and student PA's in the clinical setting. To help them APPLY what they had LEARNED in school. Was it hard doing both? Absolutely. Was it written in my job description? Didn't have a job description. I worked in the ER and Acute Care.
Less than 30 seconds looking up the current HM rating description and yes, they are assistants. Do a portion of them serve in commands where there is no RN/PA/APRN/MD/DO? Yes. But that's after proving that they can actually hack it as a Corpsman and get that specialized training.
I tend not to tell people that I was on my way to NTC Great Lakes when I got sick...wasn't allowed to join because hey, I suddenly didn't meet the physical requirements of a Naval recruit. I was enlisting as an HM, so yes, I did as much research as I could before signing that paper.
Incidentally, one of my triggers for starting a lecture is attitude. And the way that your words are coming across my screen are giving me the attitude that I have seen in some people who were in the military - those people were very firmly told that they are being a downright cruddy representation of their branch of service. They are coming across as seeing themselves as being better than everybody else, and that they are deserving of Special Assignments. Doesn't matter that they chip in with cleaning up a patient (when asked), they rarely volunteer themselves for anything, will argue with nurses and physicians about treatment plans, and just annoy people in general. Students, employees, doesn't matter. And I've seen more people from the military who aren't like that.
However. Comparing military and civilian is like comparing apples and oranges. Few similarities, but a boatload of differences.
Oh - and when you had a student, no matter where or what, did you focus on making sure they got the best education possible, or did you put the patient first? Not mutually exclusive, no, but there are times that nurses have to choose one or the other.
My CIs and lecture professors were all very firm in the fact that we were guests of the hospitals/facilities. If we screwed up, we would be sent home and not be allowed to make those hours up, and we would jeopardize our school being allowed to send students there in the future. As a staff nurse, I've sent students home - rather, told them that they had to leave the unit, and their CI sent them home. The folks who coordinate with the schools have also had to tell the schools that student Y is no longer allowed at our facility. At the end of each school's rotation, the students thank us because we welcomed them onto our unit, and the hospital rather loosely thanks us. By giving us a couple weeks before we can expect to see more students.
Any complaints that we make are taken seriously. CI never around? No way to contact CI? Students continually tardy or take over an hour for lunch? People are talked to. Continues to happen? Well, that CI/student/school gets a hiatus from coming to the hospital. Never have I been told that I just have to deal with it.
Also I have never been told that I "must" take a student. Begged? Yes. Gently asked? Certainly. The only time that I'm told that I "must" teach somebody is when I am orienting a new hire, and even then I can edge out of it if I really wanted to.
You may have been over this before, but when you sign up to this site you do not automatically know all the prior posts and topics that have been covered before, maybe if we got that magic pill we would! (
You may have been over this before, but when you sign up to this site you do not automatically know all the prior posts and topics that have been covered before, maybe if we got that magic pill we would! (
Ummm, I actually meant it was explained *in this very thread where you posted*.
ajmclean
123 Posts
Why do I bother with such myopic posts? The military experience I related to, as well as EMS experience in previous posts, are example or analogies to similar situations experienced in nursing with patients and students. But from your post, if it ain't nursing experience, it ain't crap. That attitude is arrogant, egotistical, and condescending. But us nursing students don't know anything, right?