I've been in two different hospitals in both my first and second semesters and come up against some ROUGH nurses who would rather do everything themselves than let me touch a thing.
I'm trying to wrap my head around the fact that they are BUSY, they have a TO-DO list, they have patients that NEED meds, help, EVERYTHING. But, I'm here to help. I'm wearing these bright purple scrubs not because I like the color, but because I want to learn, I NEED to learn. I will take them to the bathroom, I will bathe them, I will take their vitals, just PLEASE let me.
When I say 80% of the nurses I've followed have done NOTHING with me I am not exaggerating. Why is this? Last week the nurse I was following wouldn't even let me take vitals, VITALS!! I am in my second semester of nursing school, I think I can handle that.
Anyway, I wanted to know whats up with that! I recognize that they are busy. I also recognize the few nurses that have taken me under their wing and shown me SO MUCH. I'm thankful for that, and grateful.
While I encountered the unwillingness to teach as a student many times, I find it even more disgusting as a new nurse to meet so many coworkers who show zero interest in helping me to become a proficient nurse....why is that in a profession which emphasizes compassion there are so many non compassionate people...Very sad!!
Specializes in CCU, SICU, CVSICU, Precepting & Teaching.
While I encountered the unwillingness to teach as a student many times, I find it even more disgusting as a new nurse to meet so many coworkers who show zero interest in helping me to become a proficient nurse....why is that in a profession which emphasizes compassion there are so many non compassionate people...Very sad!!
And just how much compassion do YOU go out of your way to show your overworked colleagues who now have to spend time helping you? While you're decrying the perceived lack of compassion from your coworkers, think about how much compassion they may be perceiving as coming from you.
Specializes in Oncology, Rehab, Public Health, Med Surg.
While I encountered the unwillingness to teach as a student many times, I find it even more disgusting as a new nurse to meet so many coworkers who show zero interest in helping me to become a proficient nurse....why is that in a profession which emphasizes compassion there are so many non compassionate people...Very sad!!
I'm of two minds on this. I do feel a desire to help new nurses grow. But then again our new nurses go thru an extended versant training and don't need extensive help. When they finally hit the floor, theyre prepared
I have time to help -- to give input on a situation--maybe occasionally to show or guide them thru a proceedure. But my "compassion" leaves me when i see them hightailing out of Dodge and i'm still trying to make up for that lost charting time.
After 20 pages of back and forth on this topic, I am HONESTLY surprised that the role of the floor nurse when it comes to students seems still to be so misunderstood by students!
It's obvious that many students simply have unrealistic expectations of what their relationships would be with staff nurses in the hospitals where the students are doing their clinical rotations for their SCHOOLS. Maybe it's a romanticized view (anyone remember the Cherry Ames books?) in which a young nursling is taken under the wing of a seasoned nurse and taught everything she ever wanted to know on the spot (while the patients, it seems, are taking care of themselves).
Maybe it's an expectation placed by the clinical instructors themselves: certainly it's become clear that there are too many schools out there who believe it's appropriate to send students to a hospital to have the STAFF there teach them, instead of the SCHOOL staff that are PAID to teach them. Yes, that pesky word "paid" again: if one IS paid to do a job, and does not do it, THAT is the person to voice your anger to, Students! YOUR CI is paid to teach you. Take your anger at them NOT teaching you out on THEM!
So here's a bullet list, maybe it'll break it down on WHY the recent attitude of "you owe us an education" is so WRONG:
*You paid your school tuition. Expect them to provide tutelage to you.
*The clinical site you go to does NOT expect the staff nurses to take time out to teach you. Whoever it was here who said that the HOSPITAL EXPECTS this couldn't be more wrong if he/she tried. The hospital has an agreement with your school allowing you to BE there....NOT an agreement that you will receive education from the NURSES. Really, you think they do? WRONG.
*The job of the floor nurse is to take care of patients. NOWHERE in her job description...and I mean NOWHERE....is there a notation that her job is to take care of students.
*The poor attitude of those students who believe they are "owed" time and attention is typically the reason they do not GET time and attention. Nurses, like other professionals, like to feel that their time is valued, and that there is recognition of a GIFT of time and attention. Make it an expectation (ingratitude) and you can bet you'll be seeing the back of many nurses as they walk away down the hall.
*I think it's fair to say that most nurses DO like teaching students when they have time, and when doing so means they don't have to go without lunch or a bathroom break.
I have no idea where it came about (unless, like I said, it's the lazy CIs from crappy schools that have created this stupid situation) that a floor nurse is an additional teacher for any student who appears that day.
Students, expect education from YOUR teachers, not the nurses who are there to take care of PATIENTS. Really is that simple, honestly.
Please, students, point to the other professionals (other professions) who teach freely and without any notice, and enjoy having their day inconvenienced by students who show up and demand education from them? Which professions would that be?
WRONG. The floor nurses are there to help; to instruct, to mentor. The hospital accepted the students, therefore that is part of the mission as well as patient care.
And this part of this post, quoted above, is what is entirely and completely WRONG in the attitude and expectations of those students with entitlement issues.
The floor nurses are NOT THERE TO INSTRUCT AND MENTOR. There. I yelled. Maybe louder is better? The floor nurses are there to take care of PATIENTS, NOT STUDENTS.
BTW, the hospital didn't "accept" those students; the hospital has an agreement with your schools to allow you into the clinical setting, PERIOD. And know this: if a student creates a situation in which there is reason for a hospital to revoke that privilege, the student is GONE....and sometimes even the SCHOOL loses its privileges. You aren't "accepted", you are GUESTS.
Some hospitals, it appears, have received payment for this privilege. IN NO WAY do even THOSE hospitals "expect" that their floor nurses (whose jobs are outlined rather well, thank you) teach students during the course of their shifts as part of ANY "mission". Where does this stuff come from?
Please show me the hospital who has a Mission Statement involving the mentoring relationship between students and staff as a non-negotiable expectation?
It is about quality of care to the patients and instruction to the student.
No. The first part of your sentence is correct, it becomes incorrect when your bolded statement is added. "It" is about patient care, PERIOD.
I can guarantee that when Daughter of Patient sees Mummy NOT receiving 100% of her nurse's attention (at a time when it SHOULD be 100%) because she is chatting with a student, or taking a student to another room, or taking too long doing a treatment because student is there....Daughter of Patient is not going to think "it is about instruction to the student". It is ALWAYS about the patient, NEVER about you.
Specializes in OR, Nursing Professional Development.
WRONG. The floor nurses are there to help; to instruct, to mentor.
No, the school is there to instruct and mentor. That is why you are paying them tuition.
The hospital accepted the students, therefore that is part of the mission as well as patient care.
No, the hospital is willing to allow the school's students as guests. They did not accept the students; they accepted the school. The school is held to a standard. Not meeting that standard will result in the termination of the school's guest status at the hospital.
As for quicker and easier, that is not relevant. It is about quality of care to the patients and instruction to the student. The nurse should look at the student in the aspect he/she is training their relief. Students disrupting the routine? Since when is patient care a routine? Patients, as varied as they are, constantly disrupt the so-called routine. For example, the patient(s) who watch the clock and call at one minute after their pain meds are due while you are dealing with your other five patients.
You will understand just how much extra work and how much of a disruption students are when you become a nurse and work as one. Please print this post out and refer back to it; you will likely feel ashamed of what you said.
Clinical instructors are there to lead and manage the students and provide liaison with the charge nurse and the staff.
No, clinical instructors are there to educate the students. That is the job you are paying tuition to the school for.
You mentioned compensation twice. I didn't know nursing was all about compensation.
No, it's not all about compensation. However, no one works for free, and increased workload should be recognized with increased compensation.
You are an MSN and Guide, and I am surprised by your response. You might want to rethink your responses given your credentials and position before you respond this way to a student. I have had great nurses during my clinicals and the occasional Piece of Crap who was burnt out and/or dumped on me and my fellow students. They were the exception rather than the rule. Student nurses aren't an extra PCT or a burden. They are a future nurse.
That is a borderline personal attack. Yes, I am an MSN and a guide. I am also a bedside nurse but above all, I am human. That means I also experience stress, overwork, burnout, joy in seeing patients get better, awesome teamwork with my coworkers, etc. Again, I advise you to print this post out and read it again once you've worked as a nurse and had an unexpected student assigned to you with no notice.
I don't blame the nurse. Now that I work in the hospital, I can see why they don't want to teach. Thejob itself it very stressful, then adding teaching to the already heavy workload is not easy. I was rejected by a nurse in clinical and I did not mind at all because I understood where she was coming from. Also remember that some nurses are not able to teach and being forced to do so will not result in a negative experience.
After 20 pages of back and forth on this topic, I am HONESTLY surprised that the role of the floor nurse when it comes to students seems still to be so misunderstood by students!
It's obvious that many students simply have unrealistic expectations of what their relationships would be with staff nurses in the hospitals where the students are doing their clinical rotations for their SCHOOLS. Maybe it's a romanticized view (anyone remember the Cherry Ames books?) in which a young nursling is taken under the wing of a seasoned nurse and taught everything she ever wanted to know on the spot (while the patients, it seems, are taking care of themselves).
Maybe it's an expectation placed by the clinical instructors themselves: certainly it's become clear that there are too many schools out there who believe it's appropriate to send students to a hospital to have the STAFF there teach them, instead of the SCHOOL staff that are PAID to teach them. Yes, that pesky word "paid" again: if one IS paid to do a job, and does not do it, THAT is the person to voice your anger to, Students! YOUR CI is paid to teach you. Take your anger at them NOT teaching you out on THEM!
So here's a bullet list, maybe it'll break it down on WHY the recent attitude of "you owe us an education" is so WRONG:
*You paid your school tuition. Expect them to provide tutelage to you.
*The clinical site you go to does NOT expect the staff nurses to take time out to teach you. Whoever it was here who said that the HOSPITAL EXPECTS this couldn't be more wrong if he/she tried. The hospital has an agreement with your school allowing you to BE there....NOT an agreement that you will receive education from the NURSES. Really, you think they do? WRONG.
*The job of the floor nurse is to take care of patients. NOWHERE in her job description...and I mean NOWHERE....is there a notation that her job is to take care of students.
*The poor attitude of those students who believe they are "owed" time and attention is typically the reason they do not GET time and attention. Nurses, like other professionals, like to feel that their time is valued, and that there is recognition of a GIFT of time and attention. Make it an expectation (ingratitude) and you can bet you'll be seeing the back of many nurses as they walk away down the hall.
*I think it's fair to say that most nurses DO like teaching students when they have time, and when doing so means they don't have to go without lunch or a bathroom break.
I have no idea where it came about (unless, like I said, it's the lazy CIs from crappy schools that have created this stupid situation) that a floor nurse is an additional teacher for any student who appears that day.
Students, expect education from YOUR teachers, not the nurses who are there to take care of PATIENTS. Really is that simple, honestly.
Please, students, point to the other professionals (other professions) who teach freely and without any notice, and enjoy having their day inconvenienced by students who show up and demand education from them? Which professions would that be?
I was mistaken when I said I posted my last reply. This post demands a reply. I didn't read anywhere in this thread that anyone was "owed an education". One specific point I made previously was that the floor nurse was helping the student apply what they had already learned, not providing an education. The floor nurse provides the "real world" experience as opposed to the "school world" experience. As for not in your job description, not everything can be written into a job description. Some things are unwritten or understood.
I laugh at some of the comments posted here about "students having no clue". Pretty arrogant and condescending attitude as there are plenty of students with other real world experience, not necessarily nursing, who have been in a similar environment where you had a job to do and at the same time help students. The military is a prime example. For those that think you have the corner on responsibility, try teaching live fire (guns) training to brand new students and having another instructor-in-training assigned to you to mentor at the same time. Can't count the number of times I've had a loaded and cocked gun pointed at me during training. I mentioned my Navy corpsman experience previously and some "nurse without a clue" said that corpsmen were just "assistants". Well, as a corpsman, I had my own appointment schedule to see patients, orders labs and xrays, interpret the same, write prescriptions, did minor surgery, sutured, started IV's, gave meds, etc. No, I wasn't a nurse, an APRN, a PA; just a corpsman. I also helped to train other corpsmen and student PA's in the clinical setting. To help them APPLY what they had LEARNED in school. Was it hard doing both? Absolutely. Was it written in my job description? Didn't have a job description. I worked in the ER and Acute Care.
My school provides excellent EDUCATION and also provides excellent clinical instructors. Mine don't sit on their butts. They are out there with the students on the floor guiding and helping out.
And I can't count how many times I've had floor nurses ask me to start IVs for them even though they weren't the nurse I was assigned to. Did I say "Not my patient"? Absolutely not. I helped out because they needed help even though it wasn't in my "student job description". Not to mention the numerous "Code Browns" I was asked to clean up (again, not my nurse or patients)because the nurse didn't have a PCT assigned and viewed us, IMO, as another PCT.
"Real nurses" don't have the corner on tough jobs. A lot of people have tough jobs as well.
I revisited this thread and something posted reminded me of something I had obviously forgotten, but now jumped back with clarity: one of my CIs took the time to tell us (the clinical group that day, that had gathered for pre-report) that we were guests, and that ANY questions or problems were to be directed to HER. SHE was responsible for our behavior while on that unit, and she didn't want to hear a whisper of a complaint that we were less than wonderful to be around. She wasn't mean, she wasn't rude, she was telling us in no uncertain terms that we COULD have a great opportunity for learning while assigned to that unit for the next month....OR, we could be asked to leave and be placed elsewhere.
NO ONE in that student group thought her unreasonable. We all recognized that our INSTRUCTOR was the one we were to direct problems and concerns to; we ALL understood that the nurses whose patients we were "assigned" to were responsible for those patients. That did not mean not talking to the nurse, LOL, of course we were to do this, but we UNDERSTOOD that we were there as a courtesy, NOT an entitlement.
Maybe that's the part that is missing in the understanding of the students who feel they are owed an education by the floor nurses: you are there as a COURTESY. The nurse who answers your questions, shows you 'stuff', takes an interest in you is being COURTEOUS. She is NOT, however, "doing her job" by doing the above.
I miss my CIs, more than ever now, as I see they were really VERY good!
I was mistaken when I said I posted my last reply. This post demands a reply. I didn't read anywhere in this thread that anyone was "owed an education". One specific point I made previously was that the floor nurse was helping the student apply what they had already learned, not providing an education. The floor nurse provides the "real world" experience as opposed to the "school world" experience. As for not in your job description, not everything can be written into a job description. Some things are unwritten or understood.
YOU opened this up, as it was YOU who said "floor nurses are there to instruct, to mentor", as well as " The hospital accepted the students, therefore that is part of the mission as well as patient care". The fact that you wrote the response you just did indicates you STILL do not 'get it'! And yes, it's semantics, but students (you?) clearly ARE saying you are "owed an education" when you (collective 'you') insist that it's the JOB of the FLOOR NURSE to teach you! After all, if it's her job to give you something...then you are owed it. But that's the problem here: it's not the nurse's job. Period.
You may "laugh" at what you perceive to be arrogance or condescension on the part of the nurses who say you "do not have a clue". We are NOT talking about the "real world knowledge" you so very much enjoy posting about--ie, military work that has nothing to do with this--we are talking about the attitudes of the students who have NO CLUE what it is like to be a working nurse assigned to a high-acuity, full-patient load and then having a student stuck to them who is NOT helpful, they did NOT ask for, and in fact are weighing them down. Student's fault? NO. But sure as hell isn't the NURSE'S fault, it's the SCHOOL'S fault, or the CI's fault....but to declare the nurse must just suck it up and take it on is rude in and of itself. The fact that you compare your military experience to ANYTHING in this discussion gives you the look of arrogance and condescension, where it seems it isn't warranted.
While I am well aware that not every detail of a nurse's job may be found IN the description, YOU seem somehow unaware that it is NOT NOT NOT a nurse's job (written or unwritten) to deal with you! They are NOT required to mentor you. They are NOT required to teach you. They do this because they WANT to, but NOT because they MUST. Why is this so impossible to accept? Perhaps your time as a corpsman gave you entirely unrealistic expectations as to what a private-sector hospital functions like?
Your insistence on returning to your military stories has absolutely no bearing on this situation in the slightest. Utterly irrelevant, in fact, but you do like to discuss it....and it only underscores what you are NOT GETTING here.
The nursing students who have noted that they learned bucketfuls from floor staff also understood the courtesy arrangement. The ones who complain not enough is being done for them....don't.
I don't blame the nurse. Now that I work in the hospital, I can see why they don't want to teach. Thejob itself it very stressful, then adding teaching to the already heavy workload is not easy. I was rejected by a nurse in clinical and I did not mind at all because I understood where she was coming from. Also remember that some nurses are not able to teach and being forced to do so will not result in a negative experience.
I mean it will result in a negative experience. As a nursing student , I can say that a lot of schools are deluding their students and its very problematic. This entitlement that students possess is also causing some of these schools to loose clinical placements. The hospitals in my area require a lot and will not tolerate any nonsense from schools. We are told before hand by our school professors and clinical instructors to behave ourselves and to abide by their hospital rules. We are also told that some units may not be receptive to us but we must perform our duties and not let that rejection deter us from learning .
Barbara H.
44 Posts
While I encountered the unwillingness to teach as a student many times, I find it even more disgusting as a new nurse to meet so many coworkers who show zero interest in helping me to become a proficient nurse....why is that in a profession which emphasizes compassion there are so many non compassionate people...Very sad!!