Why wouldn't this cost of living hack work for California?

caliotter3 · Jun 7, 2019

Just last evening saw an ad for a 5 bedroom house in CA for $6995/month. While there were also ads in the $3500 - $5000 range, almost all of those did not have five bedrooms. Come out to CA and take a good look around. Don’t think you have a realistic view of what it takes to live in CA.

Wrestler133, BSN, MSN, RN · Jun 7, 2019

Sacramento is not that expensive to live in unless the cost of rent has gone up the last few years and not aware of it.

**LibraSunCNM, BSN, MSN, CNM** · Jun 7, 2019

2 hours ago, myoglobin said:
I’ve never really cared about retiring

Is this a serious statement? You seem to be completely out of touch with reality.

LovingLife123 · Jun 7, 2019

OP, you are not looking at what owning a house is. It’s an investment. It’s an investment that makes you money to put toward your goals.

This is why Dave Ramsey is so beneficial. He can teach you how to pay down your debt and achieve your goals.

What happens if you get sick? What if this illness keeps you from working into your 70’s? It’s rare for people to keep working into their 70’s. Simply for health reasons.

I’m not saying your dreams are impossible. But it’s going to be very difficult to achieve especially with your current situation and your reluctance to even consider the advice you are being given.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Jun 7, 2019

WwqeaeqsQcwwqwWI have had a DNR in place since age 30 closer to a do not treat. If I become disabled it homelessness or Medicaid, if I die before 65 then my SO and son get 550k. Currently she earns 180k and will be debt free in about a year.

14 minutes ago, LovingLife123 said:
OP, you are not looking at what owning a house is. It’s an investment. It’s an investment that makes you money to put toward your goals.
This is why Dave Ramsey is so beneficial. He can teach you how to pay down your debt and achieve your goals.
What happens if you get sick? What if this illness keeps you from working into your 70’s? It’s rare for people to keep working into their 70’s. Simply for health reasons.
I’m not saying your dreams are impossible. But it’s going to be very difficult to achieve especially with your current situation and your reluctance to even consider the advice you are being given.

15 minutes ago, LovingLife123 said:
OP, you are not looking at what owning a house is. It’s an investment. It’s an investment that makes you money to put toward your goals.
This is why Dave Ramsey is so beneficial. He can teach you how to pay down your debt and achieve your goals.
What happens if you get sick? What if this illness keeps you from working into your 70’s? It’s rare for people to keep working into their 70’s. Simply for health reasons.
I’m not saying your dreams are impossible. But it’s going to be very difficult to achieve especially with your current situation and your reluctance to even consider the advice you are being given.

I have probably read 80 percent of everything Dave Ramsey has written. Also, what makes you think I am not considering all of the valuable input that has been given? I am but for me my 1 dream really my only dream is to live in Kauai. I will never leave my family for this however.

Oldmahubbard · Jun 7, 2019

Something comes to mind, I think Einstein may have said it, about not solving a problem at the same level of thinking that created it.

TitaniumPlates · Jun 7, 2019

6 minutes ago, Oldmahubbard said:
Something comes to mind, I think Einstein may have said it, about not solving a problem at the same level of thinking that created it.

I think that he is also credited with another saying that comes to mind with the serial contrarianism that is coming from this discussion.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different outcome."

All I hear is "but but but but but"---no resolutions are acceptable---because Myoglobin, you want what you want and I'm not sure why you're asking anyone else's opinion if you aren't going to take any advice.

I lived in Hawaii for awhile. Kauai is not someplace that one just goes and moves to. Do a little research before you insist that this is the be all and end all of your life.

You say you "have no intentions of retiring". Yet Kauai has only three very very tiny hospitals---one is a teeeeeeeensy VA. Do you plan on getting a job that is all telecommute? I know a physician there on Oahu that does all telecommute and his salary is crap because of it. He lives in a tiny 400 sq ft apartment and can't really do much because the time difference prevents him from actually having a life.

I'm not trying to be harsh. Hawaii---particularly the smaller outlying islands that mean you have to fly to other islands in order to get pretty much anything that isn't jacked into the stratosphere on prices---eating yet more of your income....the housing is usually lease hold in case you don't know the term---look it up.

It's not all sunshine and skittles in Hawaii.

The thing about "hoping she'll change her mind". This is a bad foundation for a relationship---"hoping someone will change into what I want them to be".

People here are trying to help you and you're shooting down every single idea or suggestion. Then why ask.

You need to get your financial house in order---because you clearly cannot do it by yourself, you need help with it--you admit that you historically are very poor with money---yet you don't want anybody's help you want the quick fix.

I really wish you luck. I used to see people like you all the time when I lived in Hawaii and they lasted about six months before the reality of that place kicked their orifice and they had to leave.

Water the grass under your feet before you start wondering if it's greener somewhere else.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Jun 7, 2019

Several points come to mind in response to the previous post:

a. I don't discount any ideas. Indeed, this post was about "one" potential route to paying off debt sooner "moving to California". I know one couple call them Dave and Patty V" who did exactly this by becoming travel nurses and effectively doubling their income (he has about 12 years ICU experience and she has about two years experience as an RN and they went from a combined approx 110K in Florida to around 180 K in California WITH their housing included). I have learned from this post that doing something like this while living in Nevada is probably not feasible given that there are many issues with the commute (due mainly to the Sierra's in the North or the desert in the South).

b. I have three basic options on the table:

1. Stay the course locally. Graduate as an NP (if I graduate this Summer) and take an available job paying about 80K for four days per week (the most I can reasonably work with charting requirements. That is to say I will need to spend around two days per week working off clock to catch up with the 15 minute appointment windows being new and slow. Maybe like my significant other after a year or two of experience I can find a telemedicine gig like she has paying $85.00 per hour, but maybe not. 2. Stay in bedside ICU locally and continue to earn about 70K, but my loan payments will be coming due and thus my monthly minimum payments just on those loans will be about $1,000 more than my current payments even on the most extended plan. I'm simply not physically and mentally capable of doing more than my three 12 hour ICU job shifts. Any more would seriously put my RN and NP license at risk. 3. Take a "travel" ICU job and (in California) and earn more like $140K with housing provided. 4. Take an out of state psych NP gig and earn up to $150K as a new grad, but have duplicate housing costs, but maybe start my own shop in a few years which might be able to earn more money.

c. My dream of moving to Kauai would involve either keeping a telemedicine job that I had elsewhere (for example my significant other lives in Florida but sees patients in Arizona, she could just as easily earn $85.00/hr living in Kauai keeping the same job. Presumably, I could do the same if I had a similar job. Better yet we could open a small PMHNP shop say in Lihue or Princeville, that did things that other local practitioners typically don't like offer evening and weekend hours. I would also offer integrated, evidenced based holistic interventions, that are often hard to find, but highly sought after (as well as traditional standard of care medicines and counseling services). Over time the income potential of this approach might exceed that of a tele job. Of course I wouldn't pursue this until most debt was paid down, and with the support of my family. If I cannot change her mind then this dream will go "unfulfilled" and I will simply have to make the best of it here or at whatever location that I can convince her to move (or not move at all). Telling me to give up my Kauai dream, is a bit like telling someone who is Jewish to give up their dream of moving to Israel, because his wife is Catholic. In my case my "religion" is Spritual/Christian (believing in the probable reality of ghosts, UFO's, reincarnation, PSI, astral travel to name but a few things) while hers is agnostic/atheist by my heaven (at least on Earth) is Kauai. It may or may not happen, but it remains a goal. Again, unlike most I have no friends, or family (save for my SO and son), don't follow sports, don't engage in alcohol, drugs, or sex more than a few times per year. I do enjoy snorkeling, hiking (not especially in the 90degree 90 percent humidity of Florida, but still) reading, herbal medicine, organic gardening, video games, and paranormal podcasts, and a few cable shows like Supernatural, The Walking Dead, and Game of Thrones. I have the "narrow spectrum interests" in many respects of an autistic individual, and I am essentially egosyntonic with myself (meaning I don't really want to change). I do want to pay my debt and am frankly where I calculated I would be at this age when I started the route of going to nursing school in my mid 30's, the only difference is that I expected to be in Kauai during this process. Stated, differently, if I manage to pay off my debt it will be the prospect of living in Kauai (even if it is false) that provides the psychological motivation necessary to do what must be done. It is essentially the main thing that motivates me (building as successful multicenter practice in a state that would facilitate it, might come in a distant second). Stated differently, if Bill Gates appeared and agreed to write me a one billion dollar check, but I had to agree to never step foot in Kauai (let alone Hawaii), I wouldn't even consider the offer were it not for my family's sake (for their sake I would take it, but not for mine). Because as Jesus said (paraphrased) how does it profit a man if he gains the whole world, but forfeits his soul?

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 7, 2019

5 minutes ago, myoglobin said:
Graduate as an NP (if I graduate this Summer) and take an available job paying about 80K for four days per week (the most I can reasonably work with charting requirements. That is to say I will need to spend around two days per week working off clock to catch up with the 15 minute appointment windows being new and slow.

Where are you envisioning yourself working? If you're planning on working at a clinic as part of a practice, that's not going to fly. You will have to submit your notes the same day. As a new practitioner, they will often build larger chunks of "admin time" into your template until you get faster.

myoglobin, ASN, BSN, MSN · Jun 7, 2019

6 minutes ago, klone said:
Where are you envisioning yourself working? If you're planning on working at a clinic as part of a practice, that's not going to fly. You will have to submit your notes the same day. As a new practitioner, they will often build larger chunks of "admin time" into your template until you get faster.

Many practitioners catch up on notes up to three or four days later. Indeed, where my SO works, half the staff keeps a good percentage of their charts open a week or more. It's part of the sad reality of 15 minute medical management appointments (in psych) with very sick patients. No ramp up time. This is Florida, and that how they roll (there may of course be exceptions). Thus, my plan was work Monday, Tuesday, off Wednesday when I will catch up with Monday/Tues charting and review education, then work Thurs/Fri off Saturday where I will do the same as Wednesday. Even with this I anticipate working until 1900 each evening like many of the experienced providers do just to keep up with the bare minimums on the appointments. Add in a 90 minute commute each way and being at work by 0800, and that's all I can handle. Eventually, I will get faster (just like I did as an RN, there was a time when I stayed an hour or more each day charting off the clock, and I still don't take a lunch, but that's just out of principle, I don't believe in leaving ICU patients with 4/1 ratios).

klone, MSN, RN · Jun 7, 2019

Wow, that would so not fly when I worked in clinic. They can't bill until the provider's notes are submitted.

Just be aware that not all provider groups are going to be okay with this practice.

Also, be aware that you have a very rigid idea of what you're going to be doing/what your schedule will be in this hypothetical job, in this hypothetical role, with a degree that you haven't yet even earned. Your schedule will be somewhat at the whim of the needs of the practice.

Editorial Team / Admin · Jun 7, 2019

To be honest, this fixation on Hawaii and earning huge amounts of money seems a bit like an unhealthy obsession to me. It doesn't matter where you live- if you don't fix what's wrong, you will never get out of debt. Incurring more debt/expenses chasing the almighty dollar isn't the way to get out of debt. Especially at the willingness to sacrifice a relationship- leaving your significant other in Florida while you're spending huge amounts of money either commuting or renting does not make for a healthy relationship.

Take a more conservative route- stay where you are where there's a reasonable cost of living. Work OT. Moonlight at the bedside after getting an NP job (and no, waiting to close out charts will not fly at most places as it holds up billing, and then insurance companies begin to question and then payments are denied...)

It seems as though you need a serious dose of reality. A financial advisor (many banks, at least in my area, will offer a free consultation with one if you have an account with them) may be the wiser route rather than chasing the higher salaries at the expense of other things.