This is in NO way meant to be a put down on student nurses. I was one once too, but I do have a question.
I am an LVN. I work on a post surgical unit. We take care of patients after they are discharge from PACU to their rooms.
We get nursing students regularly. One group from the local community college, one group from the university and one group of LVN students.
Yesterday i had a BSN student assigned to 2 of my patients. After she arrived late for report, I gave her report and asked what semester she was and what could she do. She told me 4th semester and she could do all meds except for IV pushes and starting IV's. Ok. So with that I told her, ok. Let me know if you have any questions. This is my phone ## and I have these rooms, so you can find me here etc. She sayd ok. Then tells me that her instructor doesn't give meds with them, that I have to. I have to watch her give the meds. I was kind of like, well....what? Then I told her that I was an LVN so she had better ask her instructor if that was ok, being that she is a BSN student. I told her that I cannot hang piggy backs with her because it is not in my scope. Then she asked who hangs them for me and I told her the charge, so she went to ask the charge. Our charge nurse didn't want to. I personally didn't think it was my place to watch her administer meds. We are busy with 5 patients.
Turns out, I had to do a WHOLE lot more teaching with her than I thought. For a 4th semester student. She hadn't used our computer system for drug administration before. She didn't glove up before giving heparin (I reminded her) then she asked in front of the patient if I could help her because "i never know where to inject it on a skinny patient" Fine, fine. I know. They are all learning. But these are things her instructor should see, should be there to tell her why or how. I never met the instructor once. In passing she said "OH this is my instructor so and so" and they walked away.
Then at the end of the shift, she handed me a form "Preceptor Evaluation" asked me to fill it in. I told her that I didn't precept her. I didn't feel comfortable filling it out. Especially since I am an LVN. Besides, she did a few other things that I would have liked to have spoken to her instructor about. It was just wierd. Strange. The wierdest student experience I had ever had.
At the end of the shift she asked me if she SHOULD report off to me because "you already know the patients" Oh dear. Oh dear. Still....I never saw this instructor. never.
I'm in my 4th semester of an ADN program and we can give meds without our instructor in the room, but I need to call her before I give the med and she opens the drawer, we discus the med and she asks if I'm ok giving it. By this time I should be ok to give any med. It it's a push med we discus if its compatable with IV fluid running, how slow to give the med and how to proceed afterwards as far as flushing etc.
The student is not under your license! I specifically asked and was told that we are not working under the rn or lpn's license. There is a formal agreement between the school and the facility; we are covered under the school.
I never got to sit in on report with the nurses, ever. We were always there about 30 minutes beforehand and were left on our own to view the chart (which is all computerized). I did seek out the rn to let her know my name and if there was anything pertinent I would need to know. I would let her know what I could do. I could give meds with the rn if my instructor and the rn was ok with that. Normally, I would do that if my instructor was busy or if it was something I was very comfortable doing (oral meds, check bs etc).
It sounds like you may need to look into the policy regarding students at your facility. I was not able to even have the lpn double check my insulin because we couldn't go to lpn's as rn students. We needed to go the the rn. The lpn checks and gives insulin all the time at this hospital but it didn't matter, I was the rn student and she was a lpn.
It can be difficult as a student because I know you get so many students all at different levels. It must have been a very frustrating day for you. You have enough patients without the student being another one. This one didn't sound very prepared. I know 2 yr programs but I am clueless about 4 yr programs. I can't understand why they wouldn't be a bit more advanced at the 4th semester level. Next time maybe seek out the instructor and let her know that she needs to be in the room with the student when giving meds. You shouldn't be expected to critique the student when you don't have any idea exactly what she should know.
To clarify, She was giving Scheduled meds. We keep our scheduled meds in each patients room in a locked cabinet. She didn't have to use the accudose, but I often need to get meds out of there and completely understand and do not mind.
I will be looking into the policy today, because I do not want to go through this again, without knowing ahead of time.
A few of you mentioned that I should have signed the form. I asked the student to let her instructor know that I would like to speak to her about the form as I didn't feel comfortable signing it. It was rather random, had about 20 random procedures from assessment, NG tube management, med pass etc. I only observed her do the med pass, not anything else on the form.
It just sound to me that you concentrating on small picture instead of big picture...to clarify what I mean is that we can let go of some small mistakes someone makes but some mistakes should be not tolerated and concerns should be made.
Now my question to you is "Havent you made some small mistakes as new nurse or nursing student?
Lastly,I guess I'm a frustrated nursing student (last semester) who is tired of unforgiving nurses and militia nursing instructors who instead of teaching you the right way they like to belittle you.
I try my best at the clinicals,God knows I'm not perfect but I think we as students have a right and it is our time to make mistakes,hence if we dont fall how we will learn to fly.So there it is I said my piece and gave a insight from nursing student perspective...and no I was never failed my nursing instructor if you curious...
Note the Nurse had done all she could for the students and not to forget the fact that she had other pt to take care of. she could not be babysitting the student nurse all day (who was in her fourth semester and by calculations last semester of nursing school).
As a student if you are late it just kind of shows how u would be in the real world. Also being late for report just puts the nurse back some time when she could have been doing other things.
The OP did not condemn the student but that she felt the instructor was not there to witness these mistakes and never came back for feedback which is key in passing students.
Note the Nurse had done all she could for the students and not to forget the fact that she had other pt to take care of. she could not be babysitting the student nurse all day (who was in her fourth semester and by calculations last semester of nursing school).
As a student if you are late it just kind of shows how u would be in the real world. Also being late for report just puts the nurse back some time when she could have been doing other things.
The OP did not condemn the student but that she felt the instructor was not there to witness these mistakes and never came back for feedback which is key in passing students.
Where on earth did you assume that the student was late ALL the time.Real word interesting,since I read on this website about constant complains about nurses calling,late etc...
Where on earth did you assume that the student was late ALL the time.Real word interesting,since I read on this website about constant complains about nurses calling,late etc...
I never said or assumed the student was late at all times and most times those who are late to clinical end up being mostly late to work.
That is why they have instructors. I have worked with many an RN student, but have never monitored med administration. I am also a Licensed Nurse.
I was not saying that you were not a nurse, in no way was I trying to be offensive, sorry if it came off that way. All I was trying to say is that if an RN student who is essentially training to have a larger scope of practice (not to be better, I am not bashing here) of an LVN and has reached the point in her education that goes beyond the scope of practice of the LVN (ie: I.V. push, I.V. piggy pack, ect) then the student needs to be shadowing under an RN.
When I was a student, if we had showed up that late for report, we would have been sent home with a 0 for the day
This is a good rule. Our "shift" starts at 6am but we have to be there at least 15mins early. Its disrespectful to the nurses to show up late and shows poor character as well as professionalism.
Lovehospital, I'm glad I didn't go to your school, and I hope my family or myself don't end up being a patient of yours or your fellow classmates if your school allows the kind of behavior that you think is acceptable. Giving students a 0 for the day for being late (my school did this, too) emphasizes how important it is for the nurse to be responsible, professional, and respectful. From your posts, it sounds like you don't understand how important some of the things you call "little mistakes" truly are. I have to agree with honeykrown that the way students act in clinical is usually how they end up acting in the real world.
Lovehospital, I'm glad I didn't go to your school, and I hope my family or myself don't end up being a patient of yours or your fellow classmates if your school allows the kind of behavior that you think is acceptable. Giving students a 0 for the day for being late (my school did this, too) emphasizes how important it is for the nurse to be responsible, professional, and respectful. From your posts, it sounds like you don't understand how important some of the things you call "little mistakes" truly are. I have to agree with honeykrown that the way students act in clinical is usually how they end up acting in the real world.
Oh ok,I'm sure you will never run into traffic,never stop by police,never get sick,your kid wont get sick,your dog wont get sick,never catch a bad tire,never have a bad day.
And I'm glad I didn't go to your school, and I hope my family or myself don't end up being a patient of yours or your fellow classmates if your school allows the kind of behavior that you think is acceptable gets old...it sound more like a borrowed line from someone
Oh ok,I'm sure you will never run into traffic,never stop by police,never get sick,your kid wont get sick,your dog wont get sick,never catch a bad tire,never have a bad day.
Of course things do happen that cause you to be late. No one said it didn't. But you call the floor to let them know and don't just show up 40 minutes late. My point was that your posts sound like you don't think being responsible, professional, and accountable is important.
And I'm glad I didn't go to your school, and I hope my family or myself don't end up being a patient of yours or your fellow classmates if your school allows the kind of behavior that you think is acceptable gets old...it sound more like a borrowed line from someone
Obviously, you've heard this statement from countless other people since it sounds old to you. Shouldn't that tell you something? It's not a line that I borrowed from someone. It's my true concern.
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chevyv, BSN, RN
1,679 Posts
I'm in my 4th semester of an ADN program and we can give meds without our instructor in the room, but I need to call her before I give the med and she opens the drawer, we discus the med and she asks if I'm ok giving it. By this time I should be ok to give any med. It it's a push med we discus if its compatable with IV fluid running, how slow to give the med and how to proceed afterwards as far as flushing etc.
The student is not under your license! I specifically asked and was told that we are not working under the rn or lpn's license. There is a formal agreement between the school and the facility; we are covered under the school.
I never got to sit in on report with the nurses, ever. We were always there about 30 minutes beforehand and were left on our own to view the chart (which is all computerized). I did seek out the rn to let her know my name and if there was anything pertinent I would need to know. I would let her know what I could do. I could give meds with the rn if my instructor and the rn was ok with that. Normally, I would do that if my instructor was busy or if it was something I was very comfortable doing (oral meds, check bs etc).
It sounds like you may need to look into the policy regarding students at your facility. I was not able to even have the lpn double check my insulin because we couldn't go to lpn's as rn students. We needed to go the the rn. The lpn checks and gives insulin all the time at this hospital but it didn't matter, I was the rn student and she was a lpn.
It can be difficult as a student because I know you get so many students all at different levels. It must have been a very frustrating day for you. You have enough patients without the student being another one. This one didn't sound very prepared. I know 2 yr programs but I am clueless about 4 yr programs. I can't understand why they wouldn't be a bit more advanced at the 4th semester level. Next time maybe seek out the instructor and let her know that she needs to be in the room with the student when giving meds. You shouldn't be expected to critique the student when you don't have any idea exactly what she should know.