This is in NO way meant to be a put down on student nurses. I was one once too, but I do have a question.
I am an LVN. I work on a post surgical unit. We take care of patients after they are discharge from PACU to their rooms.
We get nursing students regularly. One group from the local community college, one group from the university and one group of LVN students.
Yesterday i had a BSN student assigned to 2 of my patients. After she arrived late for report, I gave her report and asked what semester she was and what could she do. She told me 4th semester and she could do all meds except for IV pushes and starting IV's. Ok. So with that I told her, ok. Let me know if you have any questions. This is my phone ## and I have these rooms, so you can find me here etc. She sayd ok. Then tells me that her instructor doesn't give meds with them, that I have to. I have to watch her give the meds. I was kind of like, well....what? Then I told her that I was an LVN so she had better ask her instructor if that was ok, being that she is a BSN student. I told her that I cannot hang piggy backs with her because it is not in my scope. Then she asked who hangs them for me and I told her the charge, so she went to ask the charge. Our charge nurse didn't want to. I personally didn't think it was my place to watch her administer meds. We are busy with 5 patients.
Turns out, I had to do a WHOLE lot more teaching with her than I thought. For a 4th semester student. She hadn't used our computer system for drug administration before. She didn't glove up before giving heparin (I reminded her) then she asked in front of the patient if I could help her because "i never know where to inject it on a skinny patient" Fine, fine. I know. They are all learning. But these are things her instructor should see, should be there to tell her why or how. I never met the instructor once. In passing she said "OH this is my instructor so and so" and they walked away.
Then at the end of the shift, she handed me a form "Preceptor Evaluation" asked me to fill it in. I told her that I didn't precept her. I didn't feel comfortable filling it out. Especially since I am an LVN. Besides, she did a few other things that I would have liked to have spoken to her instructor about. It was just wierd. Strange. The wierdest student experience I had ever had.
At the end of the shift she asked me if she SHOULD report off to me because "you already know the patients" Oh dear. Oh dear. Still....I never saw this instructor. never.
I think that student should have been shadowing an RN. I definitely think that you should not be responsible for teaching a nursing student, and you should have filled out the report at the end of the day stating that the SN didn't know how to do an injection, that she didn't wear gloves when she should have and she didn't want to report off to you. I would have also added that she was late.
My biggest concern with this student would be the comment she made about not knowing where to inject in skinny person,that was totally inappropriate as well as the fact that when reporting off she assumed that the nurse doesn't need the latest assessment data since she knows her patients already.
Being late for report (who hasnt done that,life happens),not putting on gloves (who can seriously say that they never forgot to put on the gloves (I admit I'm guilty) however this lack of sensitivity is what worry me about this nurse the most or maybe lack of caring?
I certainly hope you are NOT refering to me when you say lack of caring or sensitivity. that would be totally inacurate!
I always glove when giving injections. To protect me and the patient. Always. I consistently was by her side when administering meds. I was there to answer her questions. I was there when she needed anything. So I truly hope that comment wasn't meant to be about me. Because if so, well to each their own, but I am far from insensitive or uncaring!
Did you read the disclaimer at the beginning of my post? That this was in NO WAY intended to be against nursing students, that I was there once myself? So were ALL of us? I have my patients best interest in mind. She was operating under MY license. This is why I am concerned, and if that is lack of caring and insensitivity according to you, oh well. I need to protect the license I worked hard for. She doesn't have one yet. Also, no, in my 2.5 years as an LVN I have NEVER been late for report. Never. I arrive 15 minutes before I am supposed to be on the floor to gather my assignment and print my paper MAR's so that I can make a list of IV's for my charge nurse.
I certainly hope you are NOT refering to me when you say lack of caring or sensitivity. that would be totally inacurate!
I always glove when giving injections. To protect me and the patient. Always. I consistently was by her side when administering meds. I was there to answer her questions. I was there when she needed anything. So I truly hope that comment wasn't meant to be about me. Because if so, well to each their own, but I am far from insensitive or uncaring!
Did you read the disclaimer at the beginning of my post? That this was in NO WAY intended to be against nursing students, that I was there once myself? So were ALL of us? I have my patients best interest in mind. She was operating under MY license. This is why I am concerned, and if that is lack of caring and insensitivity according to you, oh well. I need to protect the license I worked hard for. She doesn't have one yet. Also, no, in my 2.5 years as an LVN I have NEVER been late for report. Never. I arrive 15 minutes before I am supposed to be on the floor to gather my assignment and print my paper MAR's so that I can make a list of IV's for my charge nurse.
It just sound to me that you concentrating on small picture instead of big picture...to clarify what I mean is that we can let go of some small mistakes someone makes but some mistakes should be not tolerated and concerns should be made.
Now my question to you is "Havent you made some small mistakes as new nurse or nursing student?
Lastly,I guess I'm a frustrated nursing student (last semester) who is tired of unforgiving nurses and militia nursing instructors who instead of teaching you the right way they like to belittle you.
I try my best at the clinicals,God knows I'm not perfect but I think we as students have a right and it is our time to make mistakes,hence if we dont fall how we will learn to fly.So there it is I said my piece and gave a insight from nursing student perspective...and no I was never failed my nursing instructor if you curious...
Specializes in Psych, ER, Resp/Med, LTC, Education.
Sorry but I never wore gloves when giving heparin (its been a while since I did medical nursing-now I am in psych ER).......thats just me, not a big deal. And I am not a new nurse. ....I do have to say that that set up with you doing the meds with the student-- and just the fact that this instructor EXPECTED you to do it and didn't even ask if it was okay. That is a bit weird. I had one time that one of the SNs assigned to one of my patients was having a bit of down time and I needed to put a foley in one of my patients and was having a pretty good day...all caught up...and I offered to teach the SN so she could do it as she was almost done with clinical and had still not had the chance to do one--the instructor did not have the time to come and watch/teach her....I offered and the instructor was thrilled. She did fine with it and I just reported back to the instructor on how she did........other then that, mostly just some questions here or there--no big deal, not generally supervising. But I offered that and was never expected to supervise anything! I knew this might be this SNs last chance to ever put in a foley as a student so......
It just sound to me that you concentrating on small picture instead of big picture...to clarify what I mean is that we can let go of some small mistakes someone makes but some mistakes should be not tolerated and concerns should be made.
Now my question to you is "Havent you made some small mistakes as new nurse or nursing student?
Lastly,I guess I'm a frustrated nursing student (last semester) who is tired of unforgiving nurses and militia nursing instructors who instead of teaching you the right way they like to belittle you.
I try my best at the clinicals,God knows I'm not perfect but I think we as students have a right and it is our time to make mistakes,hence if we dont fall how we will learn to fly.So there it is I said my piece and gave a insight from nursing student perspective...and no I was never failed my nursing instructor if you curious...
Talk to me when you have been on the floor for a while as a licensed nurse and a student nurse is making these so called "small" mistakes on your license! And your point is precisely why her Instructor should have been doing meds with her and not me.
Lots of little small mistakes add up to big ones. It's best not to let them go, because we learn from them.
My post was NOT at all about the bashing of nursing students. I have said it several times and I will say it again for you
I WAS ONCE A STUDENT NURSE AS WERE ALL OF US HERE! If you think that you have a right to make mistakes and that this is your time, that scares me. One mitake could lead to bad things. the mistakes should be avoided, by having an instructor by your side, by working in a skills lab.
If you are asking if I have made med errors, no. I have not one med error on my record. I take my meds seriously, as I am sure all the nurses here do. I have been licensed for 2.5 years.
I for one am sorry if you have been scorned by a floor nurse who was mean to you. Sorry if you have worked with "belittling" and "militant" nurses. I was not mean to her. I was very professional with her. I enjoyed her being with me. My issue is the capacity in which I had to act by administering meds with her, not having access to her instructor. I am sure she has a bright future in nursing, but her instructor needs to be there by her side to teach her and monitor her. Under HER license. Not mine.
If that makes me uncaring and insensitive, well, that's the way it is. My license is my license. I worked for it, DARN hard, as you are doing now. If I lose my license it's going to be over something that was my own fault, not someone elses.
I think this is something you need to go directly to your charge and her instructor about... the problem really seems to be her CI more than her.
I went to my charge nurse. As well as several nurses on the floor. They all agreed with me. I called the manager too. She said she thought there was something in that schools contract that said it was ok, but she wasn't sure. She didn't have time to look as Joint Commission was there.
Talk to me when you have been on the floor for a while as a licensed nurse and a student nurse is making these so called "small" mistakes on your license! And your point is precisely why her Instructor should have been doing meds with her and not me.
Lots of little small mistakes add up to big ones. It's best not to let them go, because we learn from them.
My post was NOT at all about the bashing of nursing students. I have said it several times and I will say it again for you
I WAS ONCE A STUDENT NURSE AS WERE ALL OF US HERE! If you think that you have a right to make mistakes and that this is your time, that scares me. One mitake could lead to bad things. the mistakes should be avoided, by having an instructor by your side, by working in a skills lab.
If you are asking if I have made med errors, no. I have not one med error on my record. I take my meds seriously, as I am sure all the nurses here do. I have been licensed for 2.5 years.
Hmm ok let me refer to your comment "alk to me when you have been on the floor for a while as a licensed nurse and a student nurse is making these so called "small" mistakes on your license!
I for one am sorry if you have been scorned by a floor nurse who was mean to you. Sorry if you have worked with "belittling" and "militant" nurses. I was not mean to her. I was very professional with her. I enjoyed her being with me. My issue is the capacity in which I had to act by administering meds with her, not having access to her instructor. I am sure she has a bright future in nursing, but her instructor needs to be there by her side to teach her and monitor her. Under HER license. Not mine.
If that makes me uncaring and insensitive, well, that's the way it is. My license is my license. I worked for it, DARN hard, as you are doing now. If I lose my license it's going to be over something that was my own fault, not someone elses.
Hmm ok let me refer to the several comments that you made.First: "talk to me when you have been on the floor for a while as a licensed nurse and a student nurse is making these so called "small" mistakes on your license!Oh ok so how is not wearing gloves by a students nurse will affect you license? It is for her protection,not yours.
Next mistake she made {being late for the report} ok but even if she doesnt show up the patient assigned to her ultimately is your responsibility,I know that my nurses check my work....
You claim that you havent made any medical errors,great for you,however I'm talking about nursing mistakes in general.
I dont think that you are uncaring and insenstitive,all I'm asking is to be more considerate.
Hmm ok let me refer to the several comments that you made.First: "talk to me when you have been on the floor for a while as a licensed nurse and a student nurse is making these so called "small" mistakes on your license!Oh ok so how is not wearing gloves by a students nurse will affect you license? It is for her protection,not yours.
Next mistake she made {being late for the report} ok but even if she doesnt show up the patient assigned to her ultimately is your responsibility,I know that my nurses check my work....
You claim that you havent made any medical errors,great for you,however I'm talking about nursing mistakes in general.
I dont think that you are uncaring and insenstitive,all I'm asking is to be more considerate.
If you can go back and read my original post, you will see in there that I did not once ever refer to the happenings as mistakes. You assumed that I refered to them as mistakes. I simply stated facts. Of what happened. That is all. I never once called them mistakes. I also stated that It was in no way intended to be picking on student nurses. because I know A LOT of students come here, as I did when I was a student nurse. As for showing up late for report, on our floor report starts at 6:45AM, she showed up at 7:20. After report was over. Not just late. Of course I know that the patient is my responsibility. I wasn't expecting her to show up at all. There was no student assignment. She came to me at 7:20 and introduced herself and said "i know I am late so can you give me report when you can" Which I did right then and there. Again, I never stated it was a mistake, just a fact of what happened. No I have not made any MEDICATION errors.
For the record, if you had ever worked as a student nurse, side by side with me, you would see that I am more that considerate with the students who are assigned to my patients. To jump on me based on this post because you have been wronged by someone is very sad.
When I was in nursing school, my instructor monitored our first several med passes. Usually asking a zillion different questions about every med we were administering, and woe to the student who couldn't give a good answer!
After we had checked off with our instructor, we were generally deemed competent, but we were always told to NEVER give meds without first checking with the pt's primary nurse. (What if something had to be given early, what if there were a parameter we weren't aware of that would affect administration of a med, blah, blah, blah.)
By my second semester, senior year, I was caring for 4-5 patients on a 12 hour shift, and I may have only seen my uni instructor briefly during a clinical period. My uni instructor was NEVER with me that semester to pass meds, but by that point I was working closely with my hospital preceptor (who had been warned FAR in advance that she would be precepting me) and we gradually worked up to a level of trust.
Not wearing gloves to administer Heparin?
Automatic fail, at least for the clinical day. . . .
If you can go back and read my original post, you will see in there that I did not once ever refer to the happenings as mistakes. You assumed that I refered to them as mistakes. I simply stated facts. Of what happened. That is all. I never once called them mistakes. I also stated that It was in no way intended to be picking on student nurses. because I know A LOT of students come here, as I did when I was a student nurse. As for showing up late for report, on our floor report starts at 6:45AM, she showed up at 7:20. After report was over. Not just late. Of course I know that the patient is my responsibility. I wasn't expecting her to show up at all. There was no student assignment. She came to me at 7:20 and introduced herself and said "i know I am late so can you give me report when you can" Which I did right then and there. Again, I never stated it was a mistake, just a fact of what happened. No I have not made any MEDICATION errors.
For the record, if you had ever worked as a student nurse, side by side with me, you would see that I am more that considerate with the students who are assigned to my patients. To jump on me based on this post because you have been wronged by someone is very sad.
When I was a student, if we had showed up that late for report, we would have been sent home with a 0 for the day
This is in NO way meant to be a put down on student nurses. I was one once too, but I do have a question.
I am an LVN. I work on a post surgical unit. We take care of patients after they are discharge from PACU to their rooms.
We get nursing students regularly. One group from the local community college, one group from the university and one group of LVN students.
Yesterday i had a BSN student assigned to 2 of my patients. After she arrived late for report, I gave her report and asked what semester she was and what could she do. She told me 4th semester and she could do all meds except for IV pushes and starting IV's. Ok. So with that I told her, ok. Let me know if you have any questions. This is my phone ## and I have these rooms, so you can find me here etc. She sayd ok. Then tells me that her instructor doesn't give meds with them, that I have to. I have to watch her give the meds. I was kind of like, well....what? Then I told her that I was an LVN so she had better ask her instructor if that was ok, being that she is a BSN student. I told her that I cannot hang piggy backs with her because it is not in my scope. Then she asked who hangs them for me and I told her the charge, so she went to ask the charge. Our charge nurse didn't want to. I personally didn't think it was my place to watch her administer meds. We are busy with 5 patients.
Turns out, I had to do a WHOLE lot more teaching with her than I thought. For a 4th semester student. She hadn't used our computer system for drug administration before. She didn't glove up before giving heparin (I reminded her) then she asked in front of the patient if I could help her because "i never know where to inject it on a skinny patient" Fine, fine. I know. They are all learning. But these are things her instructor should see, should be there to tell her why or how. I never met the instructor once. In passing she said "OH this is my instructor so and so" and they walked away.
Then at the end of the shift, she handed me a form "Preceptor Evaluation" asked me to fill it in. I told her that I didn't precept her. I didn't feel comfortable filling it out. Especially since I am an LVN. Besides, she did a few other things that I would have liked to have spoken to her instructor about. It was just wierd. Strange. The wierdest student experience I had ever had.
At the end of the shift she asked me if she SHOULD report off to me because "you already know the patients" Oh dear. Oh dear. Still....I never saw this instructor. never.
Strange??
Thoughts??
I have a few things in the student's defense...and a few things that I think the student did wrong.
Showing up late for clinical, to me, is massive. It's disrespectful to the nursing program as well as the nursing staff where the hospital is nice enough to allow us to come there to learn. If it were me, I would have told her to "check in" with her instructor first....so the instructor KNEW she was late...the instructor should be taking roll to start with...that's the instructor's fault.
Now with the meds...you are 100% correct in asking her what year she was, and what she could and could not do. However, I'm an RN student and we were told we could NEVER get meds and give them to the patient without showing them to the nurse in charge of that patient...period. First, we didn't have an access code to the Pyxis....so that presents a practical problem, but yes, when you have a student, it's the job of the nurse to supervise that patient...the instructor can't do it for the entire class, the charge can't do it either...to me, if I were overloaded that day (b/c I have no idea of what the care-situation was for your patients that day was...5 high-maintenence pts is enough to run you to death)....it may have been best to tell the charge that you can't take a student that day...which sometimes happens...we are told not to take it personal.
As far as the student not knowing how to use the computer...if you only had minimal training, and used it a handful of times, and had several days in between...you probably wouldn't be very good at it too.
So far, I have been at 5 different hospitals...I really don't care if I know how to use the computer system at each one of them...that is impossible to learn...that is why I ALWAYS ask someone to walk me through to make sure that I am documenting accurately, and completely and WHERE I am supposed to document per facility.
To me, that is an unreasonable expectation of the student. Our computer "training" consisted of giving us a training login and password...full time staff got 3 DAYS.
The instructor should have been introducing the student to you at the beginning of the shift...but the student showing up late probably had quite a bit to do with it.
As far as the heparin injection...the same thing happened to me...I knew what to do...but I was so nervous about giving a shot (I am well over it now), and I was so intimidated about having to "hurt" someone...the nurse had to remind me as well..I remembered the alcohol, forgot the gloves...I just about died of embarrassment...the RN just laughed and said, "It's ok...you are just nervous."
It happens!!!! Now, if she does it every week....THAT is a whole different issue!
Regarding the perceptor form, yes, you should have filled it out. She didn't work with anyone else that day except for you, right? If you were uncomfortable filling it out...then I would have asked her to ask her instructor if she was supposed to or the charge....but seriously...if she didn't work with the charge, then the charge can't fill it out.
We are also, told to report off to the nurse we worked with that day. The care, meds, etc...the nurse I am working with already knows that...what I usually "report" is any conversations, anything that I noticed when I was in the room and the nurse I was working with didn't.
However, I don't know what to say for the instructor never seeing you.....to me, that was unprofessional on the instructor's part.
Magsulfate, BSN, RN
1,201 Posts
I think that student should have been shadowing an RN. I definitely think that you should not be responsible for teaching a nursing student, and you should have filled out the report at the end of the day stating that the SN didn't know how to do an injection, that she didn't wear gloves when she should have and she didn't want to report off to you. I would have also added that she was late.