When ill equipped students affect your grade...

[wahwahgerman]

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar situation as myself...Here goes: I got docked 5% of my grade because I refused to hold an incompetent group member's hand during clinicals and there seems to be no recourse. Is this what nursing school is really all about? Do I just have to bend over until I graduate? I was under the false impression that we are all responsible for ourselves and that we should be working with a group of equal peers. Silly me.

[heatherhammy]

Did the other students in your class get docked points too? Or are they really unhappy with the NS you are referring too? If you could get some of the other students to lodge a complaint with you it would probably be taken a lot more serious.

[ghillbert, MSN, NP]

Unless this chick is the dean's daughter or something, you can bet your orifice that I'd be knocking on their door. Especially if there is more than one of you that had your grades docked - get together and go in. If you genuinely feel this student is unsafe, it's not only your prerogative, it's your responsibility to take it up the line before she kills or injures someone if she is that clueless.

[wahwahgerman]

Did the other students in your class get docked points too? Or are they really unhappy with the NS you are referring too? If you could get some of the other students to lodge a complaint with you it would probably be taken a lot more serious.

Yes, others got docked for the exact same reason. I don't even blame the other NS that we got docked the points for, it was the instructor's decision in the end. People are scared to speak up...maybe we'll wait until after graduation to talk to the dean or write a letter.

[That Guy, BSN, RN, EMT-B]

I am in your same boat OP. My class is seriously lacking in the clinical department and the instructor expects me to help out the other students as part of "working as a team". It infuriates me to no end because she will be in an office tucked away doing nothing expecting me to do her job. If i dont, she knocks my grade down. I dont mind working as a team but I dont like babysitting others.

[CBsMommy]

Wow. I cannot believe the attitude toward to the OP. It is not their job to hold this other student's hand and make sure they "get it". While it is nice to help a fellow classmate, it is not a responsibility of another student. I'm all for teamwork but if I had someone like the OP is describing (and I did in my CNA class), there is no way that I would stop what I am doing to help someone who doesn't help themselves...especially to my detriment of my grade. The OP is PAYING the school to teach them, the school is not paying the OP to teach another classmate.

OP, I stand by my previous post that I would take this up the food chain. If you think that you will be bullied by administration, well, I would probably put that concern in my typed letter to the administration as well. If you complain, do it in a professional way and sound like you are concerned for dear NS and their progress in school but be firm that it shouldn't effect your grade.

[barlowjb]

we should be working with a group of equal peers. silly me.

i smiled when i read the op's above statement because it reminded me of a quote from the literature book in high school written by author george orwell's titled: animal farm which says "all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" my spin on this quote is that all individuals in a team may be workers but some may end up working harder than others.

anyways, before i go any further, let me say this to the op: from a personal standpoint i understand your frustration and you have every right to vent. thanks for your post because reading it reminds me that there will always be people like the ones you complained about and that i will always have to practice navigating wisely around them for the benefit of patients and myself.

however i do have some general comments or food for thought if you will, targeted at no one in particular. the same opinion i have right now, is absolutely the same opinion i had in nursing school.

many of the things that happen in nursing school as unfair as it may be also happen in the real world of nursing. when working as part of a team pretend for a moment that you are in the real world of nursing where it should be all about the patient and not about how you feel about the fellow nurses around you.

picture this: you are assigned 8 patients on a busy med surg unit and your fellow nurse is assigned only 5 patients and it's an extremely hectic horrible next to impossible night. in an instance one of your team mate's 5 patients is crashing and she/he is either in shock or just plain and simple incompetent to handle the situation. what would you do? would you play blind because it's not your patient, you have more than your fair share to deal with and you "can't find the time" to help a dying patient (who god forbid could have been a family member) who has an incompetent nurse? or would you simply jump in and take over, help save the patient's life, complete your shift and report your team mate's incompetence to management later?

also picture this, if for this class the grade meant the difference between remaining in nursing school or being kicked out, would you "refuse to take on the responsibility of your team mate" because it's not fair", at the risk of receiving a low grade and getting kicked out of school or would you simply pick up your team mate's slack regardless of how upset you may be to ensure that you get the grade you need -- and then report him/her to the professor after you have received a passing grade?

the whole point of teamwork is working together for a common good. some team mates may be stronger in some areas than others, some may be plain incompetent, but the important thing is to not lose sight of that common goal no matter what. if during the time one team member is putting a patient's life in danger (in a work situation) or refuses to partake in team projects, or is just not pulling his/her weight one can document examples of the problem and make a report immediately or later depending on the situation.

someone pointed out that we pay nursing school to teach us, a statement which i totally agree with, but we have to remember that that teaching also involves how to participate in team work and wisely handling the problems that arise from the very nature of being part of a team.

as for the instructor showing favoritism - it happens all the time even on the job with charge nurses and regular staff - but that's for a whole "nother" post. i'm not suggesting that the op should bend over backward and not say or do anything, but we have to remember that there is a time, place and best way to handle any given situation.

i strongly believe that it is important to practice putting things in perspective and think things through before making the decision to act or not to act - because at the end of the day you don't want to harm the patient (because of inaction) or harm yourself (getting a bad grade or potentially putting your nursing license in danger when you become a real nurse).

best wishes

[morte, LPN, LVN]

I smiled when I read the OP's above statement because it reminded me of a quote from the literature book in high school written by Author George Orwell's titled: Animal Farm which says "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others" My spin on this quote is that all individuals in a team may be workers but some may end up working harder than others.

Anyways, before I go any further, let me say this to the OP: from a personal standpoint I understand your frustration and you have every right to vent. Thanks for your post because reading it reminds me that there will always be people like the ones you complained about and that I will always have to practice navigating wisely around them for the benefit of patients and myself.

However I do have some general comments or food for thought if you will, targeted at no one in particular. The same opinion I have right now, is absolutely the same opinion I had in nursing school.

Many of the things that happen in nursing school as unfair as it may be also happen in the real world of nursing. When working as part of a team pretend for a moment that you are in the real world of nursing where it should be all about the patient and not about how you feel about the fellow nurses around you.

Picture this: You are assigned 8 patients on a busy med surg unit and your fellow nurse is assigned only 5 patients and it's an extremely hectic horrible next to impossible night. In an instance one of your team mate's 5 patients is crashing and she/he is either in shock or just plain and simple incompetent to handle the situation. What would you do? Would you play blind because it's not your patient, you have more than your fair share to deal with and you "can't find the time" to help a dying patient (who God forbid could have been a family member) who has an incompetent nurse? or would you simply jump in and take over, help save the patient's life, complete your shift and report your team mate's incompetence to management later?

Also picture this, If for this class the grade meant the difference between remaining in nursing school or being kicked out, would you "refuse to take on the responsibility of your team mate" because it's not fair", at the risk of receiving a low grade and getting kicked out of school or would you simply pick up your team mate's slack regardless of how upset you may be to ensure that you get the grade you need -- and then report him/her to the professor after you have received a passing grade?

The whole point of teamwork is working together for a common good. Some team mates may be stronger in some areas than others, some may be plain incompetent, but the important thing is to not lose sight of that common goal no matter what. if during the time one team member is putting a patient's life in danger (in a work situation) or refuses to partake in team projects, or is just not pulling his/her weight one can document examples of the problem and make a report immediately or later depending on the situation.

Someone pointed out that we pay nursing school to teach us, a statement which I totally agree with, but we have to remember that that teaching also involves how to participate in team work and wisely handling the problems that arise from the very nature of being part of a team.

As for the instructor showing favoritism - it happens all the time even on the Job with charge nurses and regular staff - but that's for a whole "nother" post. I'm not suggesting that the OP should bend over backward and not say or do anything, but we have to remember that there is a time, place and best way to handle any given situation.

I strongly believe that it is important to practice putting things in perspective and think things through before making the decision to act or not to act - because at the end of the day you don't want to harm the patient (because of inaction) or harm yourself (getting a bad grade or potentially putting your nursing license in danger when you become a real nurse).

Best Wishes

while i understand much of your post, it doesnt apply here. This has been an ongoing issue, the CI has admitted that she should have handled it differently. If there is any "teachable moment" here, I think it revolves around the need to report incompetent peers, and see them removed.

[CBsMommy]

barlowjb - While you have excellent points in your post, where does it stop? The OP and several other nursing students have tried to help, over and over again, the NS that is struggling. Are you always going to take on the slack of your co-workers? I feel that is enabling your co-workers to not seek the help they need. I personally feel that if the NS that is struggling really wanted to be a nurse, they would read the assigned readings and use every open practice lab they could find to practice their skills. It doesn't sound like that NS even really wants to be there and should be removed from that situation. Not only would that open their eyes but maybe it would make them work harder. Just my 2 cents.

[Saysfaa]

It stops with going up the chain of authority. The chain usually starts with talking to the person directly, probably privately or at least with care about the setting.

The op is right that there is a risk of repercussions in doing that but I still think if one is going to do anything about it, that is what to do. I know there are some things I would take the risk for (or even certain consequences) and others that I wouldn't. I don't know what I would do in this situation.

CBsMommy is right about the importance of how you approach go about it.

I'd start with thorough documentation. Write down everything you can remember, as exactly as possible with dates, names of witness, direct quotes are best and the whole nine yards. If you can go back, do, but usually this is best done daily or more often as an ongoing thing. The goal is to be professional about it and to get the real issues addressed. Also to avoid getting derailed by the possible perception that you are having personality conflicts with the instructor or the other studen or are sour about getting your grade docked or so on.

Surprisingly often, the change in your attitude will turn things around, even when it seems sure it wouldn't make a difference. Even when you've had a pretty good attitude all along as wahwahgerman seems to have had for the most part. Sometimes that change in attitude (having a plan and being determined to carry it out after being nice and/or reacting) works better than actually doing the plan.

[happy2learn]

I still believe the patient comes first. And if you spend so much time helping this NS, doesn't the patient suffer? The instructor needs to be teaching that student, not letting the patient suffer because all of the students are catering to this one student.

I really don't like group projects. It seems like there are always people who are idiots or just don't care about their grade. I'm in one right now where this is happening.

Anyways.... It sounds like you helped them out a lot. I would be irritated too. I wouldn't think it's right to have to take out so much of my time to teach another student. That takes away time from you which could be spent helping a patient. You are paying them to learn, not to teach another student. I understand helping each other out, I have no problem with that. But when it becomes a huge inconvenience and is taking away from the patient, then it becomes a problem.

Personally, I would say something. But I would not make it about you. I would just say that you are concerned about the NS and think that maybe they should get a tutor or something because despite everyone's effort to assist, that NS is just not getting it. That NS needs assistance from the TEACHER. If the TEACHER cares so much about the student, they should help them. That's their job. However, it's also that NS's responsibility to seek help from the teacher or an outside source outside of clinicals, since it's their tuition. I just don't get it. If I were having a hard time, I would be seeking help. I'm paying to learn. I wouldn't just sit there and let other people do my work for me. I would be asking questions and trying to learn and understand.

You never know how that NS is feeling either. They could be scared to death and completely embarrassed that they can't do their work and always need help. There is a reason they are having a problem.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

Also picture this, If for this class the grade meant the difference between remaining in nursing school or being kicked out, would you "refuse to take on the responsibility of your team mate" because it's not fair", at the risk of receiving a low grade and getting kicked out of school or would you simply pick up your team mate's slack regardless of how upset you may be to ensure that you get the grade you need -- and then report him/her to the professor after you have received a passing grade?

The whole point of teamwork is working together for a common good.

*Chuckle*

In other words, teamwork or working together for a common good is best exemplified by doing what is expected of you until you get what you want/need and then retaliating....

Off-topic, I know. Sorry 'bout that. I just read this though, and shook my head.

[Nurselizy]

FIrst off...your gade being docked 5% I think was a tad unfair. When you graduate and pass your boards, you will be introduced to the real world of....Nursing. When a L/D patient pulls the call light and says "something just came out". You walk in to find a prolapsed cord, you DEPEND on your co-workers and work as a TEAM, to get things done b/c TWO lives are in your hands! In Nursing I have found there is no "I". A unit is as good as the Team(nurses) that work it. There are very few exceptions in my experience that I have oriented a person that "didnt get it".

I realize it must be fustrating to feel like you are having to babysit a fellow student, yet the instructor might see a light in you that you dont realize you have? The sign that a nurse will be a great charge nurse...having the ability to survey the nurses around you, knowing their weakness's and strengths and working together for one common goal "the pateint".