When ill equipped students affect your grade...

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I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar situation as myself...Here goes: I got docked 5% of my grade because I refused to hold an incompetent group member's hand during clinicals and there seems to be no recourse. Is this what nursing school is really all about? Do I just have to bend over until I graduate? I was under the false impression that we are all responsible for ourselves and that we should be working with a group of equal peers. Silly me.

Specializes in Med Surg.
barlowjb - While you have excellent points in your post, where does it stop? The OP and several other nursing students have tried to help, over and over again, the NS that is struggling. Are you always going to take on the slack of your co-workers? I feel that is enabling your co-workers to not seek the help they need. I personally feel that if the NS that is struggling really wanted to be a nurse, they would read the assigned readings and use every open practice lab they could find to practice their skills. It doesn't sound like that NS even really wants to be there and should be removed from that situation. Not only would that open their eyes but maybe it would make them work harder. Just my 2 cents.

When i mentioned "taking on slack" I didn't say "always take on slack", slack was probably not the right word choice for me, what I was trying to say is when it comes to team work - and lets look particularly at nursing school - if you have one team mate who is not pulling his/her weight (even if its your first time working with this person), you should step in and do something, to ensure that you end up with a decent grade. The point I really wanted to drive home is this: complain after whatever you have to do is over OR if its really bad find a way to address the matter with the professor if the matter is causing that much problems, but in the meantime if I was a part of that team, my grade is at stake, and there is no way on God's green earth that I am going to sit by and allow one lousy team member to cause me to get a bad grade or fail a course.

In any case it just dawned on me that my perspective may be related to my NS approach to group projects - At the end of our group projects etc, the professors included 20 points for team work. 10 of those points were based on evaluation of each person by the other members of the team. These evals were anonymous, so in the end, if your team mates thought you sucked, you can get say 0 or 1-2 points. The second 10 points based how much work each team member contributed. so in the end all members got the same number of points out of that 80% bulk, but the remaining 20% varied for each person, to make up their final grade. With this approach on the same team there may be a mixture of students with a final grade of passing and others with a final grade of failing.

I don't know if all nursing schools do this but if they don't it may be a good suggestion to combat the problem of people not pulling their weight.

I'm not trying to say I'm right or wrong about anything, its just an opinion

Best Wishes

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Specializes in Float.

this is crap! on the very last day of a&p ii when the class came in to receive their final grades, the professor passed our take home test back to us with instructions on how to grade them. apparently the professor graded everything except for 5 essay style questions on the test. he said something to this effect, 'if question 44 has anything in the answer pertaining to infection, give yourselves a point'. sitting next to the older student i posted about previously, i watched her face go blank while her pen hovered over the question. four questions later she still sat there with a daft look on her face and as she stopped the professor to have him explain the instructions again, i jumped in there to help her.

while explaining to her and going over the same 5 questions again, the professor had moved on, giving instructions for how to grade the paper and collecting them. i hastily put a grade on my paper and handed it in. 10 minutes later, i realized that i had graded my paper incorrectly and sat humilitated while the professor scolded me about the simple instructions he had given. instructions i had missed because i was helping someone else. :mad:

all these comments about teamwork in the 'real world of nursing' are irrelevent because if you're in the real world it's a given that all of your co workers have passed the nclex and there is a degree of compentancy that's different than not grasping the material. the student that the op is referring to wouldn't make it pass the boards anyway and so her responsibility for that student's knowledge is unrealistic and totally unfair! it's not a simple case of freezing in a stressful situation and while helping this dense student, what if she misses something that places her pt in danger?! help yes but at what cost and to what extent? :confused:

i see these scenario's on my job constantly, i have much respect for my rn's. i see when an rn needs an extra hand because she is new, blindsided with a critical pt passed on in report and dealing with being charge rn in addition to having 6 pts of their own.....with 2 of them wanting to sign ama. it's not the same as an incompetent classmate who you are charged with educating! it's insulting to suggest otherwise!

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this is crap! on the very last day of a&p ii when the class came in to receive their final grades, the professor passed our take home test back to us with instructions on how to grade them. apparently the professor graded everything except for 5 essay style questions on the test. he said something to this effect, 'if question 44 has anything in the answer pertaining to infection, give yourselves a point'. sitting next to the older student i posted about previously, i watched her face go blank while her pen hovered over the question. four questions later she still sat there with a daft look on her face and as she stopped the professor to have him explain the instructions again, i jumped in there to help her.

while explaining to her and going over the same 5 questions again, the professor had moved on, giving instructions for how to grade the paper and collecting them. i hastily put a grade on my paper and handed it in. 10 minutes later, i realized that i had graded my paper incorrectly and sat humilitated while the professor scolded me about the simple instructions he had given. instructions i had missed because i was helping someone else. :mad:

all these comments about teamwork in the 'real world of nursing' are irrelevent because if you're in the real world it's a given that all of your co workers have passed the nclex and there is a degree of compentancy that's different than not grasping the material. the student that the op is referring to wouldn't make it pass the boards anyway and so his responsibility for that student's knowledge is unrealistic and totally unfair! it's not a simple case of freezing in a stressful situation and while helping this dense student, what if he misses something that places his pt in danger?! help yes but at what cost and to what extent? :confused:

i see these scenario's on my job constantly, i have much respect for my rn's. i see when an rn needs an extra hand because she is new, blindsided with a critical pt passed on in report and dealing with being charge rn in addition to having 6 pts of their own.....with 2 of them wanting to sign ama. it's not the same as an incompetent classmate who you are charged with educating! it's insulting to suggest likewise!

exactly! well said!

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Some people are missing the point regarding this whole issue, and some of you all completely understand :D Thank you!

In my opinion (and everyone else in our class), the NS I refer to will not be able to make it though the full nursing program, so all of this will be in vain. Grades docked, countless hours focused on this one NS, and all the special treatment will not even help this NS get through. I have heard that the amount of babying decreases significantly as the program progresses, and I am hoping that is true!

I'm tired of being preached to by other posters about teamwork. I understand teamwork well and have no issues in participating with my "team," but this particular situation cannot be simply summed up by saying "well, she's just not a team player." It's much more than that.

Bottom line is that it was inappropriately handled. The expectation of other nursing students to ensure the success of someone who truly does not understand the material, or even make efforts to do so, is ridiculous.

If you want to put it into a real world scenario, then lets see if this would anger you: You have been a nurse for a few years and you are going in for your annual review. Your manager decides that you have not helped -----, the nurse who never completes her work and continually is in chaos, and you will be docked $1.00 per hour because of your inability to do your job and her job also. Wouldn't that upset you just a tad?

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As an aside, you wouldn't believe some of the experiences I have had with this NS. It would make people sick to know that someone who is so grossly incompetent even got into the nursing program, much less that there are instructors trying to pass them through. There is a point where this type of nonsense has to stop.

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Oh my! I read the whole post and now I'm getting more freaked out about nursing school! I start the program in August so I don't have any experience yet as to what nursing school is like. If this is what goes on, the next 2 years of my life are going to be hellish? I mean, getting through nursing school is stressful enough, but we are also expected to "carry" others as well? I'm all for teamwork, but having to constantly bail someone out because they don't do what they're supposed to do, is just wrong.

Anyone have any advice / tips so I can successfully make it through nursing school without losing my mind? :bugeyes:

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Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
Oh my! I read the whole post and now I'm getting more freaked out about nursing school! I start the program in August so I don't have any experience yet as to what nursing school is like. If this is what goes on, the next 2 years of my life are going to be hellish? I mean, getting through nursing school is stressful enough, but we are also expected to "carry" others as well? I'm all for teamwork, but having to constantly bail someone out because they don't do what they're supposed to do, is just wrong.

Anyone have any advice / tips so I can successfully make it through nursing school without losing my mind? :bugeyes:

Not all nursing schools are the same, mine is not like what is described here. Go into nursing school with a positive attitude, it can make a huge difference. If you go in thinking it's going to be hell, that is what you will get out of it.

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Specializes in Pediatric, Psych, School.

WahWahGerman,

You are absolutely right. I'm a team player, and I loved helping out my fellow classmates in school, but they helped me, too. And if there was dead weight, we weren't asked or expected to make up for another student's incompetence. As students working under our clinical instructors' licenses, we wouldn't be allowed to get near a patient unless our CI supervised or had complete confidence in our abilities.

Rah rah team only goes so far. Personal responsiblity seems to be foreign to many people these days. Sure, your clueless classmate should be taking responsibility for her own learning, but the real issue is with your instructor. It sounds like your clinical instructor is lazy and incompetent. Failure to supervise is a violation of the Nurse Practice Act. You are a STUDENT as well. You are supposed to be learning, not teaching. You do not have your master's in nursing education; you are not even a nurse yet. You are wholly unqualified to be supervising another student. Losing 5% of your grade SUCKS, yes, but being put in a situation that you are unqualified for is downright dangerous. Yes, you should help and support your fellow students, just as they should support and help you--it's a two way street. In no way should you be held responsible for supervising, teaching or otherwise doing the work for another student (in my program, that was called cheating). If the student in question needs extra tutoring, it should come from a qualified nursing instructor.

Continue doing what you can to help your fellow students. If you have the time and feel comfortable ASSISTING this other student with his/her patient care, then do it for the sake of sucking up to the professor and getting through your program. My advice is to document, document, document. Keep a journal of your activities and your instructor's requests. If you can do it without seeming out of line, ask your instructor for written instructions for exactly what she is asking you to do when working with another student. If you can't get away with that, then be sure she sees you write her instructions word for word in your notebook with the date and time. Do not hesitate to file a complaint with the school if it comes to that! When you are a licensed nurse, it will be your responsibility to file a written objection to an assignment that puts patients or yourself in serious, immediate jeopardy. The same applies for you now as a student. Protect yourself and your patients. Best of luck to you--nursing school does end!!

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
If you want to put it into a real world scenario, then lets see if this would anger you: You have been a nurse for a few years and you are going in for your annual review. Your manager decides that you have not helped -----, the nurse who never completes her work and continually is in chaos, and you will be docked $1.00 per hour because of your inability to do your job and her job also. Wouldn't that upset you just a tad?

Love it...THAT'S a true analogy to this situation. You've made it very clear that you and your other classmates helped her--and, in doing so, her assigned patients--all you could, and I believe you. The analogies referring to a patient dying if you didn't step in are a bit faulty because you never once implied--and no one can rightly infer--that you would allow a patient to suffer at the hands of an incompetent (student) nurse.

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Oh my! I read the whole post and now I'm getting more freaked out about nursing school! I start the program in August so I don't have any experience yet as to what nursing school is like. If this is what goes on, the next 2 years of my life are going to be hellish? I mean, getting through nursing school is stressful enough, but we are also expected to "carry" others as well? I'm all for teamwork, but having to constantly bail someone out because they don't do what they're supposed to do, is just wrong.

Anyone have any advice / tips so I can successfully make it through nursing school without losing my mind? :bugeyes:

I was thinking the same thing reading through this post!

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Nursing is a profession that promotes caring for others, supporting those who need support whether the "those" are patients or peers. Developing that quality begins in school. Teaming is not just about bringing what you know are excel in to the table it is about sharing with the other members of the team. Advocating, providing a different perspective and developing the skill that allows you to recognize the areas you are weak in and may need to be "carried" and offering assistance to your team mates in the areas where you have strengths. Believe me, you are not great at every thing. If you are while in school, please believe me when I say your come uppance is waiting just around the corner. If you develop the reputation to be all about you, you will be miserable once you graduate and are depending on the team to help you reallylearn and grow in your new profession.

There really isn't an "I" in team anf the "I" in profession refers to " I on the vision". If your team member, classmate fails nursing (and you represent the rest of us) fails.

With all due respect, nursing is not all about you the individual. We care, we share, we serve, each other and our patients. nanacarol

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Specializes in Pediatric, Psych, School.

nanacarol, with all due respect, you missed the point here. This is a post from a student--a STUDENT--who is not only being made to feel responsible for another student's success, she is actually being penalized for not being able to shoulder the load for another student. She has clearly stated her belief that she and her fellow students support one another and pitch in when a fellow classmate is having difficulty. She is trying to keep her own head above water in nursing school. She never said she knows or is "great" at everything. She is a STUDENT who, along with her other classmates, has been saddled with the pressure of ensuring the success of a failing student.

If your noble, altruistic attitude was sincere, you wouldn't be sitting up on your high horse, preaching about caring for others and supporting those in need while thinly veiling your judgmental attitude--which comes through crystal clear when speaking about "come uppance" to a stressed out student who has come here looking for advice. Save your self-righteous hypocrisy. Please...telling a nursing student that when her classmate fails, she fails or we all fail--it's hard to tell exactly what you were saying on your holier than thou tangent--is the height of absurdity. I don't know what Utopia you're living in, but where I come from nursing licenses aren't just handed out like trophies at my 5 year old's soccer banquet out of compassion. A nurse has to earn that license through his/her own intellect and skills. If you'd like to be judged by your professed standard, when that negligent nurse on your unit is finally canned for not following proper infection control protocol one too many times, you should be first in line requesting your own pink slip.

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