When ill equipped students affect your grade...

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I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar situation as myself...Here goes: I got docked 5% of my grade because I refused to hold an incompetent group member's hand during clinicals and there seems to be no recourse. Is this what nursing school is really all about? Do I just have to bend over until I graduate? I was under the false impression that we are all responsible for ourselves and that we should be working with a group of equal peers. Silly me.

Specializes in Emergency Dept. Trauma. Pediatrics.
It sounds like there is a lot of history to that story. If you think you were treated unfairly I would recommend that you ditch the sarcasm (stuff like "hold her hand", "silly me", and "do I just bend over?" and discuss the matter with your instructor in an adult - like manner. Being able to communicate with others (especially people who have some authority over you) is an essential part of nursing, and quite honestly the overall tone of your OP wasn't the best.

I would also keep it in perspective. Are you close to failing your clinical? If not I can assure you that once you are a practicing nurse pretty much nobody will care, much less ask you what your grades in nursing school were. Promise. How you present yourself to them and communicate with them will matter a great deal, though. Even if you were treated unfairly, this could be a reallly good learning experience for you. Good luck! I love being a nurse, can't say I loved nursing school, though!

A lot of employers are starting to ask for Transcripts to help with the influx of new grads. Also a lot of higher degree programs require a higher GPA. Grades can be important and especially when it's someone else hurting your grade. It's not even so much a matter of the grade as it is the principle of it all.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
It sounds like there is a lot of history to that story. If you think you were treated unfairly I would recommend that you ditch the sarcasm (stuff like "hold her hand", "silly me", and "do I just bend over?" and discuss the matter with your instructor in an adult - like manner. Being able to communicate with others (especially people who have some authority over you) is an essential part of nursing, and quite honestly the overall tone of your OP wasn't the best.

Considering no one in this student forum has "authority" over the OP--although some seem to think they do--let's take the OP's tone for what it is: a student venting to other students about a situation she faced.

FWIW, people rarely talk to peers the same way they do people who have authority over them. Do you think the OP is too dumb to realize that?

Although I haven't searched the posts of the real nurses who have responded to the OP in a manner like the one quoted above, I don't see your screen names often in the nursing forum where real nurses are venting. Why is that?

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Considering no one in this student forum has "authority" over the OP--although some seem to think they do--let's take the OP's tone for what it is: a student venting to other students about a situation she faced.

FWIW, people rarely talk to peers the same way they do people who have authority over them. Do you think the OP is too dumb to realize that?

Although I haven't searched the posts of the real nurses who have responded to the OP in a manner like the one quoted above, I don't see your screen names often in the nursing forum where real nurses are venting. Why is that?

Hey dudette,

I guess I don't find venting to be very useful. Does that mean I'm not a "real nurse"?

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
Hey dudette,

I guess I don't find venting to be very useful. Does that mean I'm not a "real nurse"?

You are a real nurse; we are student nurses. Real nurses in the nursing forum vent all the time (even saying some things that shock the hell out of me, but I haven't walked in their shoes), but I don't see you posting in the same manner there as you do here. Why?

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Hmmm...

I recently had to have a little think about this myself. We have a person in my class who is extremely slap dash about things. I have no desire to be teamed up with them because they have made a number of dangerous mistakes. Yet I know at some stage we will be working together. This person really freaks me out and listens to NO ONE and hasn't adjusted anything as a result of their close calls.

I am convinced there will be a monumental error associated with this student and I DO NOT want to be her teammate when it happens.

So, as far as the OP's question...I think you should revisit this with your instructor. BUT, I wouldn't use quite the same language and tone as you did here. Also, if you and the other student really are having to help this person with everything as you said -- you need to stop it. Teamwork is one thing -- propping up is another.

See, that's where the problem came in. Once myself and another student quit doing everything for the NS in question, that's when our grades got docked - for not helping ENOUGH....meaning, not helping him every minute of the day. It's really a no win situation. The various clinical instructors are aware that the student I am referring to is clueless and has made dangerous mistakes in front of them...however, nothing has happened to hold this NS accountable. It is beyond me how this can continue to go on.

In the end, I've decided that this student's danger to patients needs to be addressed, and I plan to talk to another instructor and/or the dean regarding this situation. It's just wrong on so many levels. At this point I'm not even mad about my grade being docked anymore (although I still feel that was handled inappropriately). Looking at the whole situation from a patient advocate perspective, this nursing student is simply unsafe and should not be allowed to work with patients until he is actually ready for that kind of a responsibility. In the future, if I run into a student such as this, I plan to immediately talk to my instructors about it...I will just have to tattle-tale from now on.

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Specializes in Med/Surg, Academics.
In the end, I've decided that this student's danger to patients needs to be addressed, and I plan to talk to another instructor and/or the dean regarding this situation. It's just wrong on so many levels. At this point I'm not even mad about my grade being docked anymore (although I still feel that was handled inappropriately). Looking at the whole situation from a patient advocate perspective, this nursing student is simply unsafe and should not be allowed to work with patients until he is actually ready for that kind of a responsibility. In the future, if I run into a student such as this, I plan to immediately talk to my instructors about it...I will just have to tattle-tale from now on.

This is where I may part ways with your opinion, depending on the info you provide in your response. Saying that a nurse, even a student, is unsafe is a serious accusation. Is she truly unsafe, or is she just not 'getting it' yet? There are many safeguards in place for us students to ensure the safety of the patients. Did she intentionally ignore those student protocols? Did she ignore the CI's, yours, and your classmate's suggestions to do things safely?

While I completely agree that you shouldn't be docked for her shortcomings, it may be wise to think long and hard on what your plan is. If you are early in your schooling, think even longer. Not everyone gets it early on. If by last semester, she still doesn't get it, her CIs will do the right thing, even if this one CI was a weirdo when it came to this student.

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Specializes in IMCU.

OK Not how I would go but if you think it will work for you...

I did just want to caution you (and no, I do not think you are stupid). When you report this student as being unsafe I want you to remember that you are also reporting the instructor for doing his/her job. Get what I am saying? An unsafe student should really be identified by the CI -- essentially she hasn't done her job. So I hope this doesn't backfire on you. I hate unintended consequences.

My approach would still be to question my grades being docked. Getting specific feedback on how this CI is justifying it. After that I would submit to her a written objection with your rationale (letter not email). Instructors get a bit frisky when the see stuff in writing.

But that is just my free advice and you know what they say about free advice....

By the way aren't your clinicals pass/fail? Mine are so the percent doesn't matter as long as you hit the mark.

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Specializes in IMCU.

What is funny is some of the people who are no longer in NS all of a sudden remember NS as being a place that is fair and equitable and that students do not get shafted.

What is funny about we who are still in NS is that we mistake NS for being a fair and democratic place.

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If you KNOW they are incompetent why wouldn't you JUMP on the job to help them? Since you know that you are competent yourself, why wouldn't you want the reassurance that the patient would be much safer with you there?!?!

Patient is number ONE priority.. ALWAYS

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Specializes in Pediatric, Psych, School.

WahWah, I, too, would like to know how far along in the program you are. The clinical instructor may just be biding his/her time with the student who is "not getting it." That instructor may be assuming that the student will fail out on the didactic portion of the semester, and--while it's not the best way to handle it--hoping that you and other students can help mitigate the damage this one student could potentially do. I still completely disagree with the way the instructor has handled the whole situation, but could it be that his/her self-confessed "soft spot" for the faltering student is making it difficult to confront him?

Another reason to consider how far along you are in your program is, as the other recent posters have stated, it will dictate exactly how extensive your objections should be to other members of the faculty. I had a HORRIBLE professor in nursing school--so bad that it was clear that other nursing professors were trying to make up for her deficiencies, and some went so far as to discuss it with the students. Unfortunately, that professor had been there forever, had tenure and was fairly powerful. I wrote a letter to the curriculum director, who I'd always had a good relationship with. I said in the letter that I had always respected her and hoped she could help me and my classmates--we just weren't being taught what we needed to know. I said that if she felt my complaints were going to do nothing but jeopardize my reputation in the program, then she should just delete my email. I never heard back from her. Her point was very clear: nothing was going to be done about the crummy professor, and it was up to us students to learn what we needed to on our own if we wanted to get through.

So, think about all the possible reasons for your clinical instructor's behavior. If you feel that she's putting you in situations that are potentially dangerous for you, then you should say some carefully prepared things to the right person. Do not worry yourself with whether the other student is a danger--that is the instructor's job. You students are working under her license, and if she wants to risk it for her pet student, that's her gamble to take. Just keep clear of the fallout.

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Specializes in Pediatric, Psych, School.

And one more note...for crying out loud, people: this poster is a STUDENT!!! She is NOT a nurse! The other student, incompetent or not, is NOT her responsibility! Why is this so difficult for you all to understand?! The INSTRUCTOR should be supervising her students, not pawning the failing ones off on other students! And if the instructor isn't watching her students well enough, the responsibility for the patients' well-being falls upon their designated licensed RN, not another student! Jeez! If all you have to offer are sanctimonious cliches about how "the patient comes first," or "nursing is about caring and sharing," take it over to the "Nurses Who Walk on Water" section of the site! And leave the rest of us who have a solid grip on reality here to stick it out and REALLY HELP somebody.

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This is where I may part ways with your opinion, depending on the info you provide in your response. Saying that a nurse, even a student, is unsafe is a serious accusation. Is she truly unsafe, or is she just not 'getting it' yet? There are many safeguards in place for us students to ensure the safety of the patients. Did she intentionally ignore those student protocols? Did she ignore the CI's, yours, and your classmate's suggestions to do things safely?

While I completely agree that you shouldn't be docked for her shortcomings, it may be wise to think long and hard on what your plan is. If you are early in your schooling, think even longer. Not everyone gets it early on. If by last semester, she still doesn't get it, her CIs will do the right thing, even if this one CI was a weirdo when it came to this student.

I totally understand your point, and also the points Dolcevita made. You're also right that calling someone unsafe is a serious accusation and I am rethinking my approach. I'll give you a few examples of why I feel there is a safety issue....The NS in question not knowing the difference between an inhaler and a nasal spray (even though he was corrected by myself and several other students at least 10 times), confusing what blood pressure and blood glucose levels are (yeah, really) and giving the wrong meds in simulation because of this BP/BG confusion, also in simulation setting - seeing a blood pressure of 93/78 and still administering Cozaar (telling the patient it is for blood glucose control and pain)....which would result in the patient's blood pressure tanking, sim lab scenario again - the patient tells him that she cannot swallow pills and he insists that she take them anyway, not knowing names for anatomical parts (i.e. lower extremity, toe, etc), and not knowing how to measure up morphine/glucose by reading the numbers on the syringe. Man, I could go on forever. I truly feel there is a risk in this nursing student caring for patients. Seeing that the CI who favors this student has apparently covered for him throughout our clinicals, it could be that the other instructors are not aware of how bad it really is. Although he was observed messing up in front of a few CIs in simulation lab recently and maybe they noted a problem. I know it's hard to relay my entire experience in posts, but this student is not learning even with redirection and teaching from staff and students alike....however, is still passing somehow?

In your experience, is it really common for people to not get these types of things early on? From my experience, this seems to be a rarity.

You are all probably right, it won't get me anywhere by talking about the risks that I feel are there if this NS is able to care for patients. And yes, instructors may be offended too since this is all happening under their watch. This student does ignore all the instructors' corrections and his fellow students' corrections and seems unable to learn the necessary skills and corresponding information....oh, and then lies about it and tells the CI he has done things that he has NOT done (I've witnessed this on several occasions). In the patient advocate thought process, he is very unsafe and should never be left alone with a patient (but this does happen at clinical sites because of the 1:10 CI/student ratio). Talking about the docked grade is like beating my head against the wall though! This is, of course, just in my humble opinion. I'm sure at some point all of the nonsense will be noticed by another CI and addressed, hopefully soon. Sorry guys, just venting more. It's a tiresome situation :confused: End of the semester is here and summer break will clear out the old brain.

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