When ill equipped students affect your grade...

wahwahgerman · May 7, 2010

BrokeNewGrad.....Good advice! That's what I worry about. I haven't said anything to any other staff members for those very reasons, and I still may not until I graduate! I might just grind my teeth through the rest of this semester (and possibly the whole program) :rolleyes:

wahwahgerman · May 7, 2010

If you KNOW they are incompetent why wouldn't you JUMP on the job to help them? Since you know that you are competent yourself, why wouldn't you want the reassurance that the patient would be much safer with you there?!?!
Patient is number ONE priority.. ALWAYS

Again...I'm a student people, I AM STILL LEARNING MYSELF. I have helped this student for hours and hours and so has EVERYONE else. Are you kidding me with this post? Why would it be my responsibility to be with this NS every minute of lab and clinicals? Do you forget that I am at school to learn and at clinicals to take care of my assignments too? Oh, and there are 8 other students besides him that I would gladly help when they need assistance! Do you really think that one person deserves full attention and devotion of time from the whole group? Give me a break...I can only be at so many places at one time. And to be expected by an instructor to assure another student's success is pure nonsense.

nanacarol · May 7, 2010

Many of us have been where you are and have learned that even if we are the STAR pupil, even if we have it going on for us, if one of us is lost we all lose. I believe you gave what you thought was the best you had to offer, my concern is that after all of the giving you are still focused on you. Nursing is not about the individual, it is about the Group. Every day in the real world, we encounter peers and patiemts and families that don't "get it", the expectation is that we will forget ourself and focus on the weakest link. I can't say this enough, forget about you and focus on the greater good, what you as an individual person a contributor can make a difference. My last statement may be viewed as REALLY judgemental but it is not my intent. If you hang on to this issue, you wil fail to be the bes, most sensitive and caring nurse you are open to be. If we as nurses can't carry when it is evident that carrying is the order of the day for a colleague then we may need to reevaluate our calling.

Please, please, those of you who disagree DON'T email me. Thanks Nanacarol

jzkfel · May 7, 2010

I'm wondering if anyone else has experienced a similar situation as myself...Here goes: I got docked 5% of my grade because I refused to hold an incompetent group member's hand during clinicals and there seems to be no recourse. Is this what nursing school is really all about? Do I just have to bend over until I graduate? I was under the false impression that we are all responsible for ourselves and that we should be working with a group of equal peers. Silly me.

Back to your original post. I really don't have a good idea of why you were docked 5% of your grade. You may be totally in the right, or you may have lost your cool with the other student and acted badly. I would go back to my previous advice, though - bring it up with your instructor in a mature and professional way, the way you would want someone to bring up a concern they have about you. Keep the focus on how you acted, not the other student. And keep the 5% of your grade in perspective.

If you really have a safety concern about the other student during clinicals, that's different. You are pretty much obligated to bring that to the instructor's attention, but keep in mind that not being able to name body parts with correct medical technology doesn't exactly rise to that level. Neither does making a mistake in a simulation lab - one of the purposes of a simulation lab is to be able to make mistakes in a safe (and usually confidential) environment.

I don't want to make too many assumptions - I haven't seen this other student in action and only your version of things is represented here, but it may also be worth remembering that the star pupils in nursing school don't always make the best nurses, and sometimes the ones who were at the back of the class end up being great practitioners. Maybe, maybe not in this case, but your focus should be primarily on yourself and how you conduct yourself as you learn.

dudette10, MSN, RN · May 7, 2010

Those scenarios you posted sound, well, pretty scary. It is clear this guy won't get through nursing school with the scenarios you talked about. If other CIs have seen his performance, I'm quite sure they will be watching him closely on future rotations. Let's hope those safeguards we have in place work for him.

We'll see if those who were berating you about the patient being first--and why aren't you carrying this other student--will back you up on reporting this person.

If we as nurses can't carry when it is evident that carrying is the order of the day for a colleague then we may need to reevaluate our calling.

In this particular situation the OP has described, I believe the following response is in order:

Spare me. Please.

WondeR.N. · May 7, 2010

WahWah, I'm just throwing this out here: Is English the first or second language for the student who is floundering? Is it possible there is a language barrier? Or is it possible that the student has some MAJOR performance anxiety that turns him into a clueless mess when he's being observed and critiqued? Of course, it's just possible that nursing is not what his brain is designed for and he'll fail or quit, but I'm curious as to whether there are some barriers to his communication or performance.

PS: You may want to resist the temptation to give more examples than you have. You never know who hangs out on these boards.

wahwahgerman · May 7, 2010

nanacarol and jzkfel....I've never claimed to be a star pupil or the smartest in the class. I have lots to learn, I am a nursing student. Unfortunately, the two go hand and hand - my grade being docked and this particular nursing student's performance. Yes, I feel there is a true patient safety risk. And yes, I am focused on my grade and my success in nursing school.

In addition, I would never expect other nursing students to carry my dead weight. If I was having such a difficult time understanding skills and material, I would study harder and spend more time practicing in lab so I could get a better grasp on the requirements of the nursing program. Is that too high of an expectation to have of one's self?

Also, as I have stated before, I have no problem with helping others, as we learn a lot from each other, but this situation is a false expectation that I should ensure the other nursing student's success throughout the program. How can you really justify your judgements? I guess we just have a difference of opinion and we should leave it there. It seems that you think that people who are carried through the nursing program will one day become great nurses in spite of themselves. I would want a nurse caring for me or my family to be competent...maybe he will become competent one day, but that would take actual effort on his part. In the meantime, it is having a negative impact on my grade (and yes, this is my main focus).

wahwahgerman · May 7, 2010

WahWah, I'm just throwing this out here: Is English the first or second language for the student who is floundering? Is it possible there is a language barrier? Or is it possible that the student has some MAJOR performance anxiety that turns him into a clueless mess when he's being observed and critiqued? Of course, it's just possible that nursing is not what his brain is designed for and he'll fail or quit, but I'm curious as to whether there are some barriers to his communication or performance.
PS: You may want to resist the temptation to give more examples than you have. You never know who hangs out on these boards.

True enough....and second.

Beijos · May 7, 2010

hmmm, you may want to read this thread a bit more closely. we're not talking about a day's worth of points. do you suppose i should fail the nursing program because this student is unable to learn the necessary material and skills? don't be silly. myself and my entire class have spent countless hours throughout the entire semester with this student to no avail, so please don't be so fast to place blame. keep in mind that this student comes to class and clinicals unprepared (with no clinical prep done, coming late, and without knowledge of the required readings). again, at some point there has to be some personal accountability.
i have never professed to know everything, and i will remind you that i am a student nurse who is, herself, in school to learn. peers should be willing and able to help each other and benefit from each other's experiences...not expect their fellow students to somehow ensure their success. nor should the instructors have such unrealistic expectations. we're not talking about simple teamwork people, i have been very clear about that.

.....and like i said...in my opinion your instructor did exactly what she should have done. i never said you should fail the nursing program. i am not blaming anyone. i think what is being typed is not coming across the way i wished it would. so hopefully the following will not either.

if the student comes to clinical unprepared, then eventually she will fail but what is the harm in helping them out in the mean time? i never said you know everything either. i apologize if that is how it sounded. i was pointing out the fact that you will eventually come across a situation where you will need help...and i hope you do not find yourself in a situation where your fellow nurse feels that you are unprepared or "incompetent". your future fellow nurses might not think that it is their responsibility to educate you either as there will mostly be an educator but just like the educator your instructor is only one person. they cannot be everywhere at one time. so sometimes, we have to rely on each other to help out.

be thankful that your instructor felt you knew the material well enough to teach the other student. this is not a missed opportunity as you are learning how to teach someone how to learn a concept. you have to do this in nursing, it's called pt education. i understand you feel it is not your responsibility and you are concerned that this individual will put others at harm but eventually this person will be weeded out no matter if it is by clinical, tests, nclex, or future employers... if they are truly incompetent. i know this is not very reassuring but honestly i do not recall much of anything in nursing school that did not require a licensed staff member to observe but maybe my school was a lot different. finally, pleeeeeeeeeeease in the future take this situation as a complement. speak out about it if you cannot get what you need to do for your own patients to care for them adequately. i can honestly say i have not read every post in this thread, and maybe that was happening but i doubt your instructor would have asked you if this was the case. anyway, you obviously are excelling right now and i hope that continues. i hope the situation did not seriously change your grade but if it did, i am sure understand that grades aren't everything...even if you want to go to grad school one day. what is meant to be will be. good luck!

WondeR.N. · May 7, 2010

WahWah...it's performance anxiety?

dudette10, MSN, RN · May 7, 2010

WahWah...it's performance anxiety?

You read my mind! It certainly sounds like it to me! I've seen what performance anxiety can do to one of my classmates. He knew this stuff cold, but when it came to perform in front of the instructor, it was goooooone.

BTW, I don't think my classmate will make it through either. Too bad. He was a nice guy...

wahwahgerman · May 7, 2010

WahWah...it's performance anxiety?

No, second language. We all get performance anxiety to some degree.