When is it ethical to talk about religion with a patient?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I was talking with a collegue the other day and she described a conversation with a pt where it sounds as if she were basically evangelizing. Now I had been told by my pastor (Catholic priest), who happens to be a medical ethics specialist and was at one time the chief ethicist for a large Catholic healthcare system. He told me that it's not ethical to try to convert pts and that you have to be very careful about this.

Religion is an awkward subject anyways, much like politics. I ususally follow the pts lead, or look for clues in the room as to their religious persuasion or belief system. But, then again, I don't personally believe people go to Hell just for their beliefs. I have one nurse friend who told me that she will whisper the name of Jesus in dying pt's ears.

Does anyone here pray with pts? I've done that a couple of times, but generally I treat religious beliefs as a private matter.

I have to say how pleased I am that a thread that has the potential to become volatile has been met with so much civility.

Barring one example only, I believe each person has brought forth meaningful exchanges for nurses (or ANYONE who works within the healthcare industry with immediate patient contact) to reflect upon.

It's all about the patient's needs being met, not about our needs to preach or dismiss.

Thank you all for the discourse.

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Specializes in Telemetry, Case Management.

I am a Christian, but do not press my beliefs on patients. If they ask, then I will pray or stand by while they pray (joining them in their prayer), but I do not and have not tried to "convert" anyone while on duty.

The only sort of weird thing I have had to deal with was several years ago while working in LTC. Had a pt go from a&o x3 and fairly healthy to declining rapidly. The pt had gotten to where they did not speak any longer, and the family went to the social worker in a state of panic. "Mom" had never been saved, and although the family wasn't Christian, they were "nothing" I think, they wanted to know "Mom" was in Heaven.

The social worker came to me and told me this. With the patient's family and the social worker at the bedside, I (with the DON's approval), said to the patient something like this:

"Helen (not her name), I hope you can hear me. Your family is here with us and they are very concerned. Your health is poor and we fear you may not live. Your family wants to be assured they will see you in Heaven and have asked me to do this." I then, in a few sentences shared on how to be saved and accept Christ as her savior. I finished by saying, "I know you may have heard this for many years, and I know if you are capable of hearing and thinking that you may wantto hear this now. If you don't want to do this, it is your choice, but your family wanted you to hear this now."

The patient never indicated in any way then or later that she heard any of it, and we never knew, but the family was relieved and felt better.

Oh,and back in the early 80's in nursing school we were taught to baptize any baby unattended by parents that might be dying. We were told to find out the parents religious association when they arrived, and IF APPROPRIATE, tell them of the baptism. I'm sure that's not correct in this day and age.

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Specializes in Pediatric Pulmonology and Allergy.

Oh,and back in the early 80's in nursing school we were taught to baptize any baby unattended by parents that might be dying. We were told to find out the parents religious association when they arrived, and IF APPROPRIATE, tell them of the baptism. I'm sure that's not correct in this day and age.

Where were you taught this? The practice was to baptize first, ask questions later?

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Specializes in Medical.

I usually ask the patient if they have any spiritual or religious needs that we can help them meet while they are in hospital. Best time is while you are asking the stock standard dob, adress, age, ect. No one has ever told me they have been offended by the question, they say no, I go onto the nursing assessment. They say yes, and I ask them what I can do to help. I am more than happy to make phone calls or track someone (or something)down for them.

When I was a grad (such a long time ago!!) I had a Muslim patient who was palliative care. I developed a good relationship with the family. When she went into a coma I asked her husband what religious considerations did we need to observe when she passed. He took the time to explain what was needed and was happy to answer my questions. This was a very postive experience for me, and the family. If I had not asked, I would never have known. In this instance it was appropriate to talk about religion, to meet the need of my patient and her family. Religion can be a sensitive subject and sometimes its hard to know how to ask if a patient needs spiritual or religious needs while in hospital. But for me I would feel as though I was not caring for my patient if I didnt ask. You can ask with out being offensive or sounding judgemental.

I ask about the patients about THIER religion, their pain, their condition, their surgery, their medications ,,,,,,, they don't want to know about my religion, my pain, my medical problems or the prescription medication I take.

I get a bit hot under the collar with the subject of nursing and religion as I had a bad experience as a young adult. I have a strong belief, but it is my own, and while I dont agree with everything my chruch preaches, I do not want to be converted. I had a bad bout of gastro when I was 17 and was in hospital overnight. Mum had gone somewhere and the admit nurse was asking questions. I relplied Catholic to the religion question, and at that age I didnt really know that other religions existed. So I had no idea what she meant when she asked me if I could speak in tounges. Of couse I could speak with my tounge,,,,, I then got told that unless I could speak in tounges I would never get into heaven and would spend the rest of my life in hell. I was young enough to be saved and I should turn to Christ,, quickly.Then she left, never to be seen again (and at that age I thought it was because I was a bad person for not speaking in tounges, what ever that meant)

This haunted me for years (very very very over it now) but the fact that I am over it now does not mean it doesnt get me steamed up at times. It made me feel my own faith was not enough, I was doing something wrong that would anger God; and having had the fear of hell beat into me as a child, I was teriffied.

I questioned my own faith, while I was in hospital, sick, scared and that night, all on my own. I should have been worried about weather or not I was going to be able to eat breakfast in the morning. I was to scared to go to sleep in case I died, because I had to find out what speaking in tounges meant before I went to meet my maker. I believed in a physical hell,,,,, and was sure that I would spend eternal damnation in a fiery pit.

I am not really sure what point I am trying to make. Just that I dont want to see sick venerable people feeling worse because their faith has been questioned in a hospital. Or the patient feels they have to listen to a nurse trying to convert/preach because they have to. I personaly believe that it is never ok to preach, convert, evengelise at the bedside. But,,, that is my belief. I know that that experience led me to investigate what 'speaking in tounges' meant and from there i developed a fasination with different religions. I enjoy learning about them, and ultimately it led to a stronger inner faith for my self and the religion I grew up with.

For those who think it is ok to preach at the bedside; how would you feel if you or a family member was vulnerable, in hospital, sick, confused or emotional and someone told you that one of the things you most hold dear, your spirituality, your faith, was wrong. Would you feel hurt? Angry? Fear?Disagree? Would it make you want to question your own faith? Is this something you want to feel while you are sick in hospital?

Nurses do not have the right to question their patients spirituality. There are other places and other times, outside of the hospital. If you feel the need to preach the word of God there are more appropriate places than the bedside of a hospital.

Just remember that your word of God is not necessarily someone elses word.

Wow this has been quite cathartic.:nuke: (I have written and re written and double checked like it was a uni assignment!) Maybe I still hold a bit of resentment towards that nurse and that is why I feel so strongly. I sincerely hope my comments have not offended anyone as this was not my intention.

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Thank you for sharing that deeply felt story, storm....and is yet another example of why we as nurses are there only to support the patient's needs as expressed by the patient (and/or family) rather than the needs the nurse feels the patient has because of the nurse's own beliefs.

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Well, I had a pt tonight ask me if I was saved, lol. That's a first.

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Specializes in Critical Care, Pediatrics, Geriatrics.

I've had a pt try and convert ME before. I'm Catholic and I live in an area that is predominantly Southern Baptist. This was during clinicals at a Catholic Hospital to beat all! It was pretty awkward.

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This pt was a former pastor, he also was a PITA for some of the previous nurses. I told him I was Catholic and he found that acceptable. I was able to establish a good rapport with him and his son, who was driving everyone crazy. The pt also owned a sheet metal, heating and airconditioning biz, and it turned out my son worked for him a few years back. They told me they didn't like the other nurses because they didn't chit chat enough, but only talked about the IV and the equipment. lol

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Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

I took care of an elderly gentlement the other day who was in a horrible accident, and had been there for two month...trached, broken bones the whole nine yards. Finally he was on the mend, I got him out of bed, started talking to him. I asked him how he was...."well beaten and battered, but the Lord is good.........". We had an nice conversation and obviously he wanted to talk about his faith. I interjected a little bit to keep him talking. I was in awe, and a little jealous, of his simple, yet absolute complete total faith.

He had an amazing story to tell. I'm glad I'm comfortable enough with my own beliefs (which were not necessary to share with the patient, because the conversation was not about me) to not have missed this moment.

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Specializes in Peds, Med-Surg, Disaster Nsg, Parish Nsg.

thanks garden dove and tweety for sharing these stories. both are prime examples of patients with spiritual needs that needed to be met. i'm glad that you both were sensitive to their needs and were comfortable enough to carry on a discussion following the patient's lead and meeting those needs. i especially like your last sentence tweety...."i'm glad i'm comfortable enough with my own beliefs (which were not necessary to share with the patient, because the conversation was not about me) to not have missed the moment.

i'm sure these patients greatly appreciated having someone to talk to about this, since many times healthcare workers tend to neglect or shy away from this need which, in many cases with those who are hospitalized, is as important as their physical needs.

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Specializes in Oncology/Haemetology/HIV.
I think people were thinking of in the public forum, for instance atheists who can't stand it if a prayer is recited at a football game. This thread has been very civil. Most non-believers mind their own business, but some get lawyers and try to remove any aspect of religion from the public view. I responded to another post about that, hence my comment.

No one "prevents" prayers being recited in public forums - the prayers go on. They just are not announced over the loud speaker. There is no lawyer, believer or disbeliever of any type that can prevent anyone from praying at any time in any place. And as your Messiah himself indicated, the loud over the top prayers are discouraged, anyway.

For every raging Atheist/Pagan that you point out, there are believers of various types that pull the same "I should be able to push my beliefs on the whole world - and they must put up with it without complaint". Witness Fred Phelps, Pat Robertson, etc.

If I, as a Jew, can hold my Faith intact without have organized prayers at a football game, or a Dreidal hanging from every light post, paid for by the tax payers, why can't yours?

There is no problem with supporting a patient's Faith and discussing religion - their room is their home, within reason. There IS a problem with seeking to convert them, even if you feel that they are absolutely wrong in their beliefs. And if one cannot separate one's beliefs and therefore YOUR needs from what is their needs, step away from their bedside. And find a caregiver that can care for their needs without seeking to convert.

It is not about us in that room, it is about them.

It is no different in matters of sexuality (if you believe that they would be "healthier" if straight rather than gay), DNRs (you feel that the patient would be "better off" if DNR rather than their choice of "Full Code"), or religion (your pt would be "healthier" if they would accept blood products, but as they are Jehovah's Witness, they will not)

You do not have to like their choices nor agree with them, but barring them being dangerous/harmful to others or fall into illegalities, to a certain extent, you must accept them or find someone who can.

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Thanks TnButterfly for the compliment. It's those little niceties that make an impression on pts. I was taken aback by my pt trying to evangelize me and was thankful that my answer was acceptable because I didn't really want to get into listening to him try to convert me. I was able to turn around this man and his family's negative attitude towards the hospital and staff last night, it was great. Hopefully he'll have a better day today.

I agree, it's all about the pt and to me that's the best part of the job, drawing them out and getting to know them. I'm really intuitive with them, and it's almost like detective work, finding some common ground, and then they open up like a flower. I find with male pts they love to talk about their jobs. That always softens them up and before you know it you've unraveled their whole philosophy on life.

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