What's your reason for putting up with it?

[canigraduate]

Hello, all!

I have been a CNA for a little over a year now as I am transitioning into the health care field. During this time, I have observed the nurses I work with, who happen to be all female so far.

I have noticed nearly every female nurse I have worked with puts up with things that would shock someone not in healthcare. Things that would get you arrested if you tried them outside of a facility. Things that I personally can't tolerate.

What I want to know is, if you are a nurse that puts up with these actions, why do you do it? Is it for job security? Are you a submissive person? Do you feel that you deserve the things that people do to you? Do you think it's lack of education about what is and isn't appropriate behavior? Or maybe it's due to the accepted culture of a workplace?

This isn't for a class or anything, I just really would like to know what the motivation is.

Thanks in advance for your replies!

[gypsy626]

many states have or passing laws to help nurses some states limit the number of hrs you can work to 8 or 12 ( in one facility) you may have another job for more hrs it has proved to decrease med errors and possible harm

all states should have this

I know by the 15th hr I am not safe but forced to work an overnight shift one nurse 2 cnas and a heavy 6 am med pass ( no way to be in compliance)

one the subj of nurse to nurse altercations as I have stated before HR dragged me through it after I was assaulted and I agree with one post that states HR is NOT your friend they are in place to protect the company.

I did the right thing with chain of command and it made me the target of the don. I go back to the first thing I learned in nursing school, no change without change.

[Abishag]

I can tell you why I put up with behavior like that. I was taught in nursing school that patients and families are sometimes dealing with an extreme amount of stress and don't know how to handle it. Sometimes we think the patient's condition is not a big deal but the family doesn't know that. Its hard for us to think back when we had a family member hospitalized and didn't know anything about medicine but we were probably just as scared and just as frustrated with everyone.

I've had families be extremely rude to me and I still treated them with respect. Later, I was (on occasion) apologized to because of how they were acting.

I was taught in nursing school that many times patients would be sexually explicit but not because they were trying to be rude. The instructor explained that many times the patients feel that their dignity is robbed because they have this person that is flipping and turning them, wiping them, barging in their personal space, making them do things when they want it done not when the patient wants it done. The patient isn't used to not being in control. This acting out is sometimes their deep-rooted frustration in loss of control and privacy. Also, for those that may be frustrated with their new condition (colostomy, prostatectomy, etc) they may be scared about the future of their sexuality and ability to be intimate and so they harass because their unsure or too embarassed to ask.

These patients are probably the most scared and the most frustrated. Some nurses put up with it because that is what we are trained to do. I do believe in setting boundaries but we probably let more things slide because we realize these people are in a delicate condition. If not everyone can handle it or deal with it - to each his own. I'm probably more feminist than most girls my age and believe in being respected. But I also know that sometimes we all act like self-centered children. These patients are under a great deal of stress and so I can let more things go and just vent about it later.

JMHO.

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

abishag

we are not talking about over-stressed or demented patients.

if you let people abuse you, they will keep doing it. if you let people touch you (in any form or manner) they will think it is ok to do it. these are the premises of fighting against abuse - that is why there is a 100% no tolerance of any violence/abuse for any excuse in australian hospitals. we cal call security if we are abused in any shape or form, but most staff i have met use that as a last resort, and try to defuse a situation.

i myself was abused in a past relationship and the only reason the man kept doing it, was because i stayed with him, hoping he would change (he never did).

i hope you are not saying people should tolerate any abuse, especially at work. don't forget that abusers can be very, very devious and tricky - they know how to twist you around to feel sorry for them and tell you lies, and their so-called hard luck stories. don't be fooled! abuse in any shape or form from anyone, should never be tolerated under any circumstances, and when you do tolerate it you are saying it is ok to do that. don't be naive - read up on abuse in it's many shapes and forms and do not tolerate it, please. if you do, you are then sending out the wrong message.

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

I can tell you why I put up with behavior like that. I was taught in nursing school that patients and families are sometimes dealing with an extreme amount of stress and don't know how to handle it.

I've had families be extremely rude to me and I still treated them with respect. Later, I was (on occasion) apologized to because of how they were acting.

I was taught in nursing school that many times patients would be sexually explicit but not because they were trying to be rude. The instructor explained that many times the patients feel that their dignity is robbed because they have this person that is flipping and turning them, wiping them, barging in their personal space, making them do things when they want it done not when the patient wants it done. The patient isn't used to not being in control. This acting out is sometimes their deep-rooted frustration in loss of control and privacy. Also, for those that may be frustrated with their new condition (colostomy, prostatectomy, etc) they may be scared about the future of their sexuality and ability to be intimate and so they harass because their unsure or too embarassed to ask.

JMHO.

The only p'ts who stay in the ED I work in after being sexually explicit toward me or who harass me are :

- Dementia p'ts

- Mentally ill p'ts

- P'ts receiving IV sedation

- Head injury p'ts

The rest go.... they get kicked out by the charge nurse or one of the doctors.

There is some joy in socialised medicine .... this is one of the positives of working in Australia.

I think I would be fired if i worked in the US ...simply couldn't do the problem p't butt-kissing you all are expected to do

[Abishag]

carolmaccas66

I was not talking about accepting abuse by individuals that are in their right mind. However, you can tell the ones that are abusive in general by how they treat their family members, and those that are just being over-protective and stressed out. I've seen patients families coddle the patient but then yell that we aren't getting results fast enough. Or "I've asked you for this 4 times and you still haven't brought XYZ to me!" Its things like that, that I start to consider "Caregiver Role Strain" and "Anxiety" and so forth before snapping back as I've seen other nurses do.

However, if a patient's family member is being rude to the patient and to me, you can better believe I will say something. Also, anyone that is physically abusive that is not under the influence of dilaudid, dementia, or some other pathophys causing the behavior, will have security called and the charge nurse will be informed. For instance, I had an old man acting totally sweet and normal one day and three days later after some dilaudid and major surgery, acting out of his mind with wild eyes, ripping out IV's and talking nonsense that pulled back his fist like he would hit me. Had he hit me, I would have probably thought long and hard about whether to do anything other than letting my charge nurse know because I know he was not acting in his right mind.

You see my floor is mostly elderly since I work in an elderly community. The only people that are younger than 60 are getting penile implants or having hysterectomies or prostatectomies. These individuals are known for saying some bizarre things like, "I'm totally ready for my bed bath now...OR now I can get it up honey!" I would never accept physical sexual abuse (grabbing, fondling, etc) and would be calling security right away and pressing charges if need be. But I have had men that will lay in bed completely naked just to see what my reaction is. Which I ignore it. I mean I deal with patients having penile implants so they can have sex and will have erect memberes following an implant in order to heal. Its hard for them to NOT say something because of embarassment. Or patients that have TURPS and become or can become impotent. Its kind of difficult to avoid the subject altogether. But when patients get out of line I think of my other nursing diagnoses like "Sexual Dysfunction" or "Anxiety" related to loss/change in sexual function. Trust me, no matter what is said, I don't just keep my mouth shut. But I refocus them onto healthcare subjects, like "well Penile Implants have a great success rate but if you want me to print you up some material on the procedure and the healing process after, I'd be happy to print out those instructions."

I would never accept abuse if I thought it was real abuse. Some women probably couldn't accept as much as what I've mentioned above and that is fine. Everyone has different histories and predispositions and some nurses probably can't let things roll off their back. But if another nurse or CNA saw me let something roll off my back and not ask why I didn't do something then they may not know my reasoning for ignoring certain comments. I don't think the right behavior for a nurse (in the situation of the family being demanding) is to just snap back and be rude. I think the nurse needs to explain as calmly as possible why XYZ hasn't been done.

I wouldn't want anyone to accept behavior that makes them uncomfortable or emotionally distraught. I hope my first message didn't come across that way. But it only explains why in certain situations I've allowed things to roll off my back.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

carolmaccas66

ii start to consider "caregiver role strain" and "anxiety" and so forth before snapping back as i've seen other nurses do.

.

you're new to the profession. you're also fairly young. your perspective may change after you've had a few years of nursing experience or elderly hospitalized parents. i've been a caregiver and experienced both "role strain" and "anxiety" and i have never behaved in an abusive way to those who were trying to help. i venture to guess that none of us have. there's just no excuse for abusive behavior in a family member, and little excuse for it in a patient -- dementia, disorientation and drugged being the valid excuses.

[Abishag]

I won't argue that my perception or how I react will or won't change. I am new to nursing and thanks for saying I'm young. I still feel young lol. But after 8 years in telephone customer service and a job depending on how I respond to angry verbally abusive clients, this seems like a cup of tea I guess. Maybe I'm jaded and don't put my foot down enough. I'll blame it on corporate america! :)

[carolmaccas66, BSN, RN]

I won't argue that my perception or how I react will or won't change. I am new to nursing and thanks for saying I'm young. I still feel young lol. But after 8 years in telephone customer service and a job depending on how I respond to angry verbally abusive clients, this seems like a cup of tea I guess. Maybe I'm jaded and don't put my foot down enough. I'll blame it on corporate america! :)

This is what I was trying to say, please don't think I am putting you down at all.

ANY ABUSE IS ABUSE! People can make any excuse; I'm having a bad day; my gf p****d me off so I hit her but now I'm really, really sorry; I kicked the dog because the boss paid me out...there are a million and one excuses abusers use. I could go on all night re abuse but you probably get the picture.

I have also just recently updated my aggressive and abusive management training. We were NEVER told to put up with any abuse; it doesn't matter if the patient is demented, whatever. We were told to protect ourselves and the other people/patients near us. We are never told to tolerate abuse; it is 100% discouraged in our hospitals and no reason is accepted by the police.

Wait till you have had a dementia patient take a full swing, and punch you in the side of the head, like happened to me. Lucky the guy didn't have full strength, but it was enough to knock me out for a few seconds. Not fun at all.

Yes you do sound young and maybe haven't been exposed to much. I used to make all sorts of excuses for abusive people when I was young, now I realise it's because I was scared and didn't understand how sly and sneaky abusers can be - and they are very clever and wiley.

Remember, many women fought and died (still do) for us women nowadays to have freedom from abuse; there are still marches held by women's groups and I do support the '100% no excuse for abuse policy'.

You really shouldn't be tolerating abuse for any reason whatsoever, otherwise you play right into the abuser's hands.

Enough said by me on this subject now.

[lovescapeRN]

i come from a acute psychiatric background with patients who are undergoing detox, drug abuse, schizophrenia, bipolar mania, depression, suicidal ideation, psychosis.... all that stuff!!!

and boy did i experience all that violence/ verbal violence/ grabbing/ mental stress that aged me for 2 years even though i worked there for 2 months.. WHY i dealt with it...????

because they're mentally ill.. I just telling myself to believe that they're the sick ones, i shouldn't take any of their crap seriously. But of course I have to set limits when they lash out on me. Sometimes i do feel like a punching bag.. i mean its gonna happen.. they will say the big F you if you don't give them their narcotics on time.

i think nurses do have a very caring nature.. we care for people at their worst, so I just come in knowing that they will act at their worst, but i just wont take their crap seriously... actually when i was in motherbaby care, the patients were bringing me gifts, food, giving me thank you notes. it was kinda sweet actually!

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

The only people that are younger than 60 are getting penile implants or having hysterectomies or prostatectomies. These individuals are known for saying some bizarre things like, "I'm totally ready for my bed bath now...OR now I can get it up honey!" I would never accept physical sexual abuse (grabbing, fondling, etc) and would be calling security right away and pressing charges if need be. But I have had men that will lay in bed completely naked just to see what my reaction is. Which I ignore it. I mean I deal with patients having penile implants so they can have sex and will have erect memberes following an implant in order to heal. Its hard for them to NOT say something because of embarassment. Or patients that have TURPS and become or can become impotent. Its kind of difficult to avoid the subject altogether. But when patients get out of line I think of my other nursing diagnoses like "Sexual Dysfunction" or "Anxiety" related to loss/change in sexual function.

.

I remember being taught that in nursing school too. However, once I had been working a few years, I realised that there is a type of man who behaves like that .... he is generally emotionally stunted and has had an issue with sexuality way before his hospitalisation.

Nursing school is not allowed to tell you that some people are prats and they act the way they do because that's what they are.

Instead we have to suffer all the myriad of stupid explanations for why they refuse behave more respectfully and responsibly.

This sort of man doesn't have much respect for nurses .... he places us in his own little category ....'women who serve me at my beck and call and are lower status than me'. We are in the same category as all the other 'girls' in his life .....the waitresses, cleaners, strippers, hostesses, receptionists ....you get the point. This is the sort of man who lunches at a gentlemans club.

These men are disrespectful prats and the stress of hospitalisation and threat of loss/change of sexual function REVEALS their true colors..... as distinct from being the causative factor

[Flying ICU RN]

he places us in his own little category ....'women who serve me at my beck and call and are lower status than me'. We are in the same category as all the other 'girls' in his life .....the waitresses, cleaners, strippers, hostesses, receptionists ....you get the point. This is the sort of man who lunches at a gentlemans club.

An image search with the keywords above turned up this guy.

[pedicurn, LPN, RN]

hahhaha :)