What's your reason for putting up with it?

DebblesRN, ASN, BSN, RN · Aug 14, 2010

What kinds of things are these nurses putting up with?

All I can say is that I don't put up with a great deal of BS, but I am not sure what it is that you feel the patients, doctors, or other staff are doing that is so horrible.

Sparrowhawk · Aug 14, 2010

Yeah I need more explanation of what you're talkinga bout...

grandmawrinkle · Aug 14, 2010

Samantha, this is a really great question and will be a really good thread if people choose to respond.

So much of this is so deep rooted and ingrained in hospital culture that it's impossible to change everything. I personally will not put up with being blatantly attacked, undermined, disrespected, etc. but there are some smaller things that you just have to let roll off your back.

Example: I'm discussing a patient with a resident because I think that changes to this patients plan of care need to be made. We are engaged. Another doctor walks down the hall and gets the attention of the resident I'm talking to. They have a 30 second conversation, that doctor continues on down the hall, and the resident continues his conversation with me...no apologies made for being interrupted, nothing about how rude it was that our conversation was hijacked, etc. Do I make a deal out of this? No. It's a small inconsideration, and I wouldn't want to make myself look like a dink by bringing up something that this resident probably thinks is meaningless. Thus, my behavior actually reinforces the resident's behavior (and also the doctor's behavior that has already left) since he got what he needed -- both conversations got completed.

Had I walked away from this situation, I would not have reinforced this behavior, but I also would have ran the risk that my patient concerns would not have gotten addressed, which is not something I could run the risk of, since that could come back to bite me (nurses get fired for not bringing concerns to the doctor...that's one of our primary responsibilities.) There are no guarantees that the doctor would have ran after me to find out what I wanted later -- generally that doesn't happen. So, you could see that I didn't really have any option there but to do what I did.

Does that make sense? I'm not a doormat, but sometimes, there is nothing you can do but play the doormat role.

On the other hand, I am the first person to go to the top if I see something over-the-top horrible going on that has to do with a power play.

canigraduate · Aug 14, 2010

Thanks, GW! That is exactly what I was looking for.

In elaboration, I have seen nurses put up with physical and sexual assault (minor, but still...), verbal abuse, all kinds of bullying (I don't know the current buzzword - lateral violence?), lies from management, completely and scarily unsafe patient assignments, etc. You know, all the things vented about on allnurses, pretty much, is what I've seen.

For specifics, I've seen a few nurses have their behind grabbed by an A&Ox3, not to mention all the boob grabs. I've seen nurses hit by LOLs several times. I've seen nurses struck by all kinds of things, from call lights to bedpans. I've witnessed threats against a pregnant nurse's unborn baby. I've seen poo flung at a nurse and the patient had d**n good aim. I've seen all kinds of management manipulation, including threats of write-ups and termination, to prevent refusing unsafe assignments. I've overhead all kinds of verbal abuse from management, patient's families, and even a few patients.

Flying ICU RN · Aug 14, 2010

I have noticed nearly every female nurse I have worked with puts up with things that would shock someone not in healthcare. Things that would get you arrested if you tried them outside of a facility. Things that I personally can't tolerate.

Grandmawrinkle's well thought out post, is a great mindset to have in general. However, your words above are concerning with regard to specific allegations of potential illegal behavior.

The following is a quote from the EEOC website.

Under the laws enforced by EEOC, it is illegal to discriminate against someone (applicant or employee) because of that person's race, color, religion, sex (including pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. It is also illegal to retaliate against a person because he or she complained about discrimination, filed a charge of discrimination, or participated in an employment discrimination investigation or lawsuit.
The law forbids discrimination in every aspect of employment.

Let's say for example someone is being legitimately sexually harassed at work, or discriminated against as above, files a complaint and is later retaliated against. Well, this is what is called a "protected activity" , and would have severe consequences for those involved.

Let me tell you that my wife (also an RN) is a strong willed woman who has put the immediate brakes on any kind of nonsense that may have come her way over the years.

As I write this, I see in your follow-up post to GW, some mention of geriatric patient antics. Patients are patients and their behavior is likely deemed part of an illness process.

Care must be taken in differentiating between legitimate and unfounded accusations.

canigraduate · Aug 14, 2010

I need to quit thinking about examples... I'm getting all "het up" for the nurses I know. Here's a few more anyway:

Family members being completely rude and disrespectful to nurses, sometimes violent

Patients using nurses as servants

Doctors are a$$*s to nurses (not all, but a very visible few)- I wouldn't talk to my enemy's dog the way some of the doctors talk to the nurses

cltnurse · Aug 14, 2010

I think it's a two-sided coin kinda thing. I know that as a female, nursing is a profession in which I will always have a job. I can't support myself doing much of anything else. I think women often find themselves in the role of care-taker which stems from a our struggle through time. Sometimes it's shocking what ppl will do to provide. Still, it is challenging and I enjoy that a lot. Each day, I feel that I make a + difference is someone's life. I am very proud of the work that I do EVEN if it means putting up with some aholes now and then.

canigraduate · Aug 14, 2010

Grandmawrinkle's well thought out post, is a great mindset to have in general. However, your words above are concerning with regard to specific allegations of potential illegal behavior.
The following is a quote from the EEOC website.
Let's say for example someone is being legitimately sexually harassed at work, or discriminated against as above, files a complaint and is later retaliated against. Well, this is what is called a "protected activity" , and would have severe consequences for those involved.
Let me tell you that my wife (also an RN) is a strong willed woman who has put the immediate brakes on any kind of nonsense that may have come her way over the years.
As I write this, I see in your follow-up post to GW, some mention of geriatric patient antics. Patients are patients and their behavior is likely deemed to part of an illness process.
Care must be taken in differentiating between legitimate and unfounded accusations.

Hi! Thanks for the reply. Actually, a lot of the actions I was thinking of did occur at an LTC, but many also occurred at a hospital.

Patients who are demented are cut a little slack, obviously, but this is not what I am referring to. I am referring to those patients, relatives, coworkers, etc., who know better.

It seems to me, sometimes, that when people are ill, they and the people close to them think it absolves them of rationality. I don't agree with that. I also don't understand why age matters when it comes to acceptable behavior. Well, except for young children.

As to sexual harrassment and discrimination, I believe those refer to management, correct? I am not up on my legal definitions. I haven't witnessed any of that. I am talking about what I see as assault from patients and family members, such as when a 35 year old guy with all of his faculties grabs a nurse's rear as she passes by and says "Nice buns, hon."

I really don't understand why anyone puts up with such things, but I see it happening frequently.

canigraduate · Aug 14, 2010

I can't support myself doing much of anything else. I think women often find themselves in the role of care-taker which stems from a our struggle through time.

Hmmm... I hadn't thought of that. Although, in modern times, women do have more options besides nursing than ever before. That's one of the reasons why I don't understand why so many nurses tolerate what they do.

I personally have been a waitress, a graphic designer, and a roofer, along with a few other odd jobs. The waitress job came the closest to the kind of degradation I see in nursing, but not nearly as bad.

makes needs known · Aug 14, 2010

Patients are exempt from this because they are sick and nobody is their best when they are sick. Family members are also exempt because they are concerned about their loved ones. Most co-workers are cut some slack because they are working right by your side and they deserve your respect, but management, they treat their employees like crap. Always adding and changing the rules. Never taking responsibility for problems, always preaching and never listening. It doesn't matter that you are also a professional and deserve some respect. We all worked hard to get where we are. Stop pointing fingers and start patting us on the back once in awhile.

cltnurse · Aug 14, 2010

Agreed! I don't think that nursing is the only thing women are restricted to. I know many women who are employed doing things outside of care-taking. Things that I think are quite interesting and important to our society. I was trying to explain from my personal perspective. Women have made fantastic strides for equality and I don't believe that anyone should be abused in the work-place. Trouble is, I have seen and delt with it myself. Family members who are desperate for their loved ones health can be down right hateful and ugly! The fact is, it is tolerated. It can be intimidating to stand up and report things because often the response is a 'it is par for the course' type. I try to focus on the + aspects and the rewards I get doing my job.