What's REALLY with the hospitals using Magnet as a cover for wanting BSN only nurses?

[foreverLaur]

I'm in an associate degree RN program. I have a previous BA in Psychology and just finished up my last two classes online to also get my BS in Business Administration. I have worked for over a year as a PCA at a local hospital and also work as a supplemental instruction leader to help incoming nursing students do better in their first and second quarters. Yet all the nursing recruiters at the hospitals I'm looking at say that without a BSN, none of that will matter and my odds of getting hired are slim to none since I am competing with 4 well respected BSN programs.When asked why, all the hospitals said it is a requirement for Magnet status. From what I can tell, the requirements in terms of degrees for Magnet status are:

1. The CNO must have at a minimum, a master's degree at the time of application. If the master's degree is not in nursing then either a baccalaureate degree or doctoral degree must be in nursing.

2. Effective 1/1/2011 - 75% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

3. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% Nurse Managers must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

4. Effective 1/1/2013 - 100% of nurse leaders must have a degree in nursing (baccalaureate or graduate degree)

By the AANC's definition, most nurses don't fall under any of these cateogories. A nurse leader is a nurse with line authority over multiple units that have RNs working clinically and those nurse leaders who are positioned on the organizational chart between the nurse manager and the CNO. A nurse manager is Registered Nurse with 24 hour/7day accountability for the overall supervision of all Registered Nurses and other healthcare providers in an inpatient or outpatient area. The Nurse Manager is typically responsible for recruitment and retention, performance review, and professional development; involved in the budget formulation and quality outcomes; and helps to plan for, organize and lead the delivery of nursing care for a designated patient care area.

There are NO requirements or recommendations stated for the vast majority of nurses - the ones doing the bedside care on a daily basis. So why are all the local hospitals hiding behind Magnet as their reason for only wanting to hire BSN nurses when that's not true at all?? I do plan to get my BSN and my MSN, but I need experience first and nobody will apparently hire me when I graduate! I also cannot afford a RN-BSN program without a job that will help me pay for it (all these hospitals offer tuition reimbursement for RN-BSN programs) because I am fresh out of undergraduate loans.

So what's the deal and what do us associate degree nurses do!?

[happyinillinois]

Look into WGU. I did the online RN-BSN in 6 months because like you I had a previous B.A. So I only needed the 7 core nursing classes. I did it in 6 months for $4k. It is cone accredited.

[GM2RN]

Was looking at the new grad hire website for a major NYC top ranked hospital and not only do they prefer BSN degree holders, but those with a minimum GPA of 3.0. as well.

What do you mean by this? I was required to graduate with a minimum of 3.3, which is a B- at my school. Don't you think that nurses should graduate with at least a 3.0 (which would have been a C for me)?

[DoGoodThenGo]

What do you mean by this? I was required to graduate with a minimum of 3.3, which is a B- at my school. Don't you think that nurses should graduate with at least a 3.0 (which would have been a C for me)?

Meant what one said. Had never seen nor heard of a hospital putting a GPA floor under the sort of new grads they preferred before.

Here in the NYC area many programs both private and public have been recently upping the required GPA for entry and or retention to a minimum of 3.0, however it is by no means universal. For instance the College of Staten Island moved the minimum from 2.5 that has been around for decades to 3.0 starting with Fall of 2012. http://www.csi.cuny.edu/nursing/NRselect.pdf

Though it may not apply to all CUNY colleges/universities a "B" at Hunter College is 3.0 and a B- is 2.7. OASIS: Grading System (GPA), Office of the Registrar, Hunter College

Of course it has been true for a *very* long time that students with

What one has noticed is that for the last year or so NCLEX passing rates for more than a few NYS/NYS nursing programs are down. Some by a few points, others more. Am not sure when the change happened exactly but recently the NCLEX "passing" bar was raised a bit, which historically leads to a percentage of students who would have made the cut otherwise, not passing. One wonders if the increase in GPA and other changes by nursing programs is the result in whole or part of how their graduates are shaking out from the board exam changes.

[GM2RN]

Ok, but regardless of the reason, which presumably is to get a higher quality nurse, don't you think that a higher gpa requirement is better than a lower one?

[DoGoodThenGo]

Ok, but regardless of the reason, which presumably is to get a higher quality nurse, don't you think that a higher gpa requirement is better than a lower one?

Quite simply answered, oh I don't know about that.

Requiring a new graduate with a 3.0 or higher GPA *may* produce higher quality (new) nurses, but so far from what one has seen/heard the jury is still out on that subject.

Again as stated previously 3.0 GPA has been the de facto standard for entry and graduating from NYC area programs for almost a decade now. Quite simply without such a high average one's chances of getting and staying in a RN program around here are low to nil. Yet somehow this has not automatically lead to any major overall increase in the quality of new graduates.

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

Meant what one said. Had never seen nor heard of a hospital putting a GPA floor under the sort of new grads they preferred before. Here in the NYC area many programs both private and public have been recently upping the required GPA for entry and or retention to a minimum of 3.0, however it is by no means universal. For instance the College of Staten Island moved the minimum from 2.5 that has been around for decades to 3.0 starting with Fall of 2012. http://www.csi.cuny.edu/nursing/NRselect.pdf Though it may not apply to all CUNY colleges/universities a "B" at Hunter College is 3.0 and a B- is 2.7. OASIS: Grading System (GPA), Office of the Registrar, Hunter CollegeOf course it has been true for a *very* long time that students with

[Kidrn911]

Okay what bothers me about Magnet is their philosophy "Nursing excellence" are they saying ADN can't be an excellent nurse because they don't spend $$$$ on increasing their education. Because that is how I am seeing it thrown out. Then it makes me wander how much Universities invested in the making of this award status to boost their admissions?

[avengingspirit1]

The Aiken study that nursing academic elitists love to trumpet as the reason why we need the BSN push has already been shown to be biased and flawed in many ways. I invite all nurses to read the critiques of the study. It is full of self-affirming validity. Why would anyone who calls themselves a professional advocate changing nursing policy based on just one study? So why the sudden push for the BSN? This may give us clue: (200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012). Carefully research the people driving the BSN push and you'll find that every one of them is in some way affiliated with a four year college or university. I also researched the IOM and found that just about every one of its officials and representatives are also affiliated with four year schools. In other words, four year colleges need revenue and those in academia want to stay employed. Since there are more nurses than any other healthcare professional, they feel requiring nurses to run back to school is the best way to get it. Once they have all nurses running back for BSNs, then they'll say you need a Master's Degree to give the profession the respect it deserves. After that it will be a doctorate. If you buy into this scheme, they'll have you running back to school and in debt for the rest of your life.

Many hospitals in the area are telling their most experienced nurses; many who are in their 40s and 50s who have over 20+ yrs of experience along with specialty certifications that demonstrate proficiency and excellence in areas such as trauma and ICU and who also have called upon to mentor new nurses, that they must now earn BSNs. Many of these nurses realize that to go into debt for $20,000-$30,000 at that time in their lives for something that has absolutely no bearing on patient care is ludicrous. Many know that the loan may not be paid off by the time they are ready to retire and have said they would leave the profession if they are forced to do this. These are the most experienced nurses that you and I would want to have taking care of us or our loved ones should hospital treatment be necessary. Losing these nurses would be a detriment to the profession and a danger to general public because the risk of being cared for by inexperienced nurses will be greatly increased.

Bottom line: If the BSN push is not about money, why won't they let nurses earn BSNs the same way they earn CEUs such as studying articles in Nursing Spectrum and Advance then taking the competency tests. Reason is the four year colleges and universities won't make money that way.

And as far as Magnet Status goes:"Nothing more than a money making scheme for the ANA, hospitals pay the ANA thousands of dollars for a fake seal of approval." (Jan.16, 2009, Nursingjobs.org.).

The elitists driving the BSN and Magnet Status push live in the fantasy world of academia and think we nurses are too stupid and naive to see through their game. Let's let them know we're not by not not buying into their scam and by not supporting the ANA or your state's nurse's association until they stop supporting the hiring of only BSNs in hospitals. Also, an RN with a Bachelor's Degree in another area should be given the same hiring consideration as someone with a BSN. To not do so would be the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I've ever heard of.

Peter Lee, B.A., RN

[SummitRN, BSN, RN]

So why the sudden push for the BSN? This may give us clue:(200 college and university campuses have closed during the last 10 years due to decreasing enrollments as baby boomers aged" (Nursing Spectrum, Jan. 9, 2012).

You are implying that they are pushing for BSNs to keep schools from closing. That is misleading AND illogical. 200 have closed, but many have opened and enrollment is way up over that time peripod. "Between 2000 and 2010, [college] enrollment increased 37 percent, from 15.3 million to 21.0 million." (Fast Facts)

I also researched the IOM and found that just about every one of its officials and representatives are also affiliated with four year schools.

So you are saying... that researchers... are affiliated... with research institutions... STOP THE PRESSES! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

Many hospitals in the area are telling their most experienced nurses ... that they must now earn BSNs. Many of these nurses realize that to go into debt for $20,000-$30,000

Anyone who pays that for a BSN completion is not shopping around, plus they are probably eligable for aid assuming the employer isn't paying for their degree anyway.

Also, an RN with a Bachelor's Degree in another area should be given the same hiring consideration as someone with a BSN. To not do so would be the most narrow-minded, short-sighted thing I've ever heard of.

Peter Lee, B.A., RN

THis is a truly objective, unemotional statement from an unbiased authority with no dog in the fight.

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

So you are saying... that researchers... are affiliated... with research institutions... STOP THE PRESSES! IT'S A CONSPIRACY!

They're actually most likely affiliated with major universities that offer WELL BEYOND the basic 4 year degrees and that offer masters and doctoral degrees. Small colleges that focus on undergraduate degrees only usually don't have major research centers, as research often relies on graduate student assistants.

[avengingspirit1]

I'm not implying anything. I'm stating that higher education is big business and is rapidly becoming a big racket with all the degree inflation that goes on. All nurses whether they graduate from a Diploma, Associates or Bachelor’s Program must complete the same coursework from an accredited program in order to sit for the state licensing exam. Why does it bother these so-called nursing leaders so much that many nurses graduated from Diploma and Associates programs? And why should they care as long as a nurse is skilled, competent and maintains their license by completing the state mandated continuing education units?

Just about all of the so-called experts who support requiring nurses to obtain a BSN are backed by the AACN (American Association of Colleges of Nursing); an organization which is committed to BSN entry into nursing or in some other way are affiliated with a four year college or university.

Obviously, there must be something going on with nursing school enrollments at 4 year schools. If enrollments drop, it means less funding, less staff needed and academic elitists who haven't touched a real patient in 15 yrs or more are probably worried that they may actually have to go back into the real working world.

So once again, I'll ask; If it's not about money, why won't they let nurses earn BSNs the same way they earn CEUs such as studying articles in Nursing Spectrum and Advance then taking the competency tests.

I've read your other posts and know you must work in academia. So please be honest with the readers and tell us what 4 year college or university you work with.

[hiddencatRN, BSN, RN]

"Obviously, there must be something going on with nursing school enrollments at 4 year schools."

Obviously based on objective data or obviously based on your deductions? Because that's not an "obvious" conclusion for me based on both personal experience (getting in to nursing school was COMPETITIVE and there was no shortage of applicants for schools I applied to to choose from) and looking at enrollment trend data like what SummitAP posted.