What do you think of Clinical Nurse Leaders (CNL)?

silentRN · May 24, 2011

I'm not sure if I know exactly what that is. We have clinical leaders on our unit, and they mostly do manager roles, and charge nurse duties.

onedayitllbeme · May 24, 2011

Well it is a relatively new degree, maybe a few years old. the definition is 'The Clinical Nurse Leader (CNL) is an advanced generalist who focuses on the improvement of quality and safety outcomes for patients or patient populations', but it is a Degree trained RN who has a Masters in addition to a Bachelor's degree, but is not an APN, would need additional schooling to be a practitioner for example. I wonder if this is the same as what you called 'Clinical Leader', but that might be more Nurse Management.

Jules A, MSN · May 24, 2011

Sorry but my feedback hasn't changed if that is what you are looking for. ;)The ones I have worked with have been very light on clinical skills and way too interested in delegating even as a brand new nurse. If I were to run across one that actually had nursing experience before they acquired their Masters I might feel differently but basically it seems to me as if they are largely people that are interested in by-passing the patient care aspect and moving right into managemet. Imo the insight and intuition you gain from actually having put your hands on a live human being over the years is priceless for people hoping to earn leadership roles.

onedayitllbeme · May 24, 2011

Thanks Jules! I never heard your feedback. When I searched the archives I found someone with screen name JerseyBoy that seemed to have a negative feeling about CNL's also. I wonder if the name CNL is bad because it really focuses on the Leader aspect, when from what I understand the longer term position (after Patient Care!) would be looking at things like how to make the life of patients better by doing things like treating the nurses better and allowing them to in turn be happier (just for example)

tswim · May 24, 2011

As a new grad CNL, your degree and title would be useless. Most likely, you will start off as an RN I with the same pay and role as a new grad from an associate's or bachelor's program. CNL programs are most beneficial to the universities (usually private/expensive) that offer them, because of the increased amount of time=money students will spend on schooling. It's understandably appealing to those who hold bachelor's degrees in non-nursing fields looking to get into nursing mostly because it is at the masters level.

However, once in the hospital setting, someone could have the same role as a CNL without the master's degree. I don't work with any "CNLs," and yet my hospital has leadership (charge, rapid)/ research (quality- audits, e.g.)/ educator needs that are addressed by experienced clinicians- often with the titles RN III & RN IV. Some of these RNs only have an associate's degree, but are recognized and paid for their experience and extra/ leadership work.

The CNL degree would eventually be useful if your goal is to get work as a nurse manager/director or educator- and yet, these roles often only require a bachelor's and bedside experience.

I think the best route is to get to the bedside via the shortest/cheapest program and get your employer to help pay for your continued education. good luck

Jules A, MSN · May 24, 2011

I definitely think the position would be an interesting addition to nursing IF the people filling the roles actually had the insight from experience to know what would make patients and staff's lives better. What I can also say is that again imo much of it is about $$ because it is my understanding that the schools are charging students graduate tuition rates for the BSN courses they take along the way. Best of luck with it if you decide to go for it and just be aware of the issues that you are likely to face early on. :)

Edited to add another thread with a few responses also:

https://allnurses.com/nursing-career-advice/accelerated-bsn-msn-560205.html

Moogie · May 24, 2011

The University of Iowa, which had offered a direct entry MSN/CNL track, is changing its CNL program to post-BSN.

The Iowa Board of Nursing has approved the transition of the Clinical Nurse Leader program to a post licensure Model A program. Applicants are required to have BSN and an active nursing license to pursue this focus area in our graduate programs.

Here's a link:

http://www.nursing.uiowa.edu/academic_programs/graduate/mnhp/index.htm

I wonder if this is going to be a future trend with so many MSN programs in advanced practice nursing transitioning to the DNP. The CNL would offer a generalist master's degree to the nurse who wants to stay at the bedside and be a clinical nurse leader.

Sonjailana · May 24, 2011

We have CNL's and they follow the patients 'story.' Honestly, they don't do any bedside care, and tell staff nurses what to do without having any authority. It seems really like a miserable position. They do 'bedside rounds' and keep some stats. Honestly I can say they are extra cost with extremely little benefit to our unit.

33762FL · May 24, 2011

Honestly, it sounds to me like kind of a scam for schools to charge graduate tuition to make someone a nurse rather than undergraduate tuition (an ABSN is undergrad).

onedayitllbeme · May 24, 2011

Hmm.. I hear you. I mean the idea seems great, someone to really take a look at everything without being in the thick of it. But it only makes sense if you have the bedside nursing care so you what being a nurse means and earn some respect by having the experience (though I imagine there will always people that will not be supportive as they feel bedside nurses are the only type of nurses needed in a hospital)

As far as going to a state school. It isn't possible until next Fall. The next option is a Spring Accelerated BSN at a different private school. I am also not eligible for many schools unless I retake some classes because although I got A's, they were taken in 2003,2004 (A&P and Chemistry) So I can either make time to take them again which I am sure would help my knowledge, but wouldn't want to risk a lower grade (we all know that grades are sometimes about the teacher not just your study habits, intelligence, etc)

What would you do? (Besides turn back time and go to nursing school when you were accepted to a state school in 2003, but decided to stick with the 1st career in hope you would start to love it!)

Suethestudent · May 24, 2011

I have never worked alongside a qualified CNL but we have had one on our unit that was a student. He was COMPLETELY clueless, had a BS in some admin type role and when asked to put in a foley he soiled his pants and fled the room claiming that he " had done that loads of times and someone else needed to do it" . It was so clear to everyone that he had absolutely no idea what to do, but more worryingly he had no interest in trying to learn the skill.