What do you think of Clinical Nurse Leaders (CNL)?

ObtundedRN, BSN, RN · May 24, 2011

I've never worked with one, but a few units in my hospital has them. I've briefly talked to a one. My understanding (at least in my hospital) they are assigned to work on a unit like any other nurse. But they are not in any type of management position. I think the title clinical nurse LEADER is a bad title. My understanding is they are there for quality control and process improvement. Including customer service, and acting as a "primary care nurse" that follows the patient throughout their hospital stay (but only on that unit...). This would help because they know what happend 3 weeks ago, as opposed to what they were told in report that morning.

However, I haven't heard of too much benefit from having them. I've heard of one doing a study using the call light system to track RN and NA hourly rounding. This improved patient satisfaction and reduced falls on the unit that did this trial. But that is they only improved outcome I've heard of so far. But I've also never looked into CNLs. I have no desire to go into a CNL program.

llg, PhD, RN · May 24, 2011

I agree with the general sentiments expressed in this thread. A person can't function effectively as a leader until after they have had a few years of clinical experience.

We have discussed hiring CNL's for unitl leadership positions (e.g. unit educators, etc.) and will be happy to do so -- AFTER they have worked as staff nurses for a few years and become competent nurses. We won't consider hiring a new grad CNL for anything other than a staff nurse position.

However, that doesn't mean I am not supportive of the role. I can understand that someone who already has a BS or BA in another field might like to enter nursing with their education at a graduate level. They may have exhausted their eligibility for undergrad financial aid, etc.

So, I am OK with entry-level MSN's in general. But I think anyone taking that route needs to understand that they will not graduate as competent nurses -- and they need to practice as a staff nurse for a while and make that transition from student to professional nurse to competent/proficient nurse before they can be ready to assume any type of leadership position.

Jules A, MSN · May 24, 2011

But I think anyone taking that route needs to understand that they will not graduate as competent nurses -- and they need to practice as a staff nurse for a while and make that transition from student to professional nurse to competent/proficient nurse before they can be ready to assume any type of leadership position.

Great points and unfortunately this does not seem to be the attitude of the CNLs I have worked with although it is probably the school's prompting that embraces the notion that upon graduation they are instant leaders. :rolleyes:

ACorEtACri · May 24, 2011

I looked at doing a CNL program, but ended up in ABSN/MSN due to my career goals. Making it a Master's changes your federal financial status to graduate student. If you already have a bachleor's, you are not eligible for certain federal aid programs. If you do a second-degree BSN program, you might be less financial aid. You can get more aid if you are a graduate student if you have a previous bachelors. Check out federal aid websites and talk to school administrators about this stuff if you have questions.

I have not idea about the market for CNL. But if you want to pursue an advance degree (Advance Practice Role, ect) at some point in time, SOME states require a BSN. An MSN cannot be used to fulfill the requirement.

Scrubmouse RN · May 24, 2011

I'm thinking of enrolling in a CNL program. I see it as an advanced generalist degree, I do not expect to be able to do anything special with it. Since I already have a BS, I prefer to get a masters instead of a BSN

leenak · May 24, 2011

I'm an outsider looking in but the MS-CNL programs I've seen don't excite me as someone who has a BS/MS in a non-nursing field. I have no interest in being in management. I want a MSN but a MSN-NP. For those that are looking for entry level nursing programs, it doesn't seem to make much sense to me to go for the CNL programs unless they have a burning desire to be in management. They are extra money, extra time and they don't save you much of any time if you desire to pursue advanced nursing programs. They also seem to be a way for schools to entice those with existing BS/BA degrees since the students can qualify for federal financial aid and end up paying a higher tuition, it is definitely a win-win for schools. I don't know for sure though as I said, I'm an outsider looking in and with a deep desire to avoid being in management :)

onedayitllbeme · May 25, 2011

I have not idea about the market for CNL. But if you want to pursue an advance degree (Advance Practice Role, ect) at some point in time, SOME states require a BSN. An MSN cannot be used to fulfill the requirement.

Not sure I understand this. Meaning if you want to get a MSN-NP and you can't unless you have a BSN in Nursing, if you have a BSN in Computer science and an MSN in CNL you can't? Do you have any links that explains this more?

In my case (time is ticking), my quickest way to get into nursing is another private BSN nursing program in the spring (15 months), second quickest is this MSN CNL program as nothing else I am eligible for is still accepting for Fall. The program is 22 months, and if i wait until next fall (2012) i can apply for accel bsn at state school (14 months).

Moogie · May 26, 2011

Individual state nurse practice acts determine the appropriate level of education for advanced practice nurses (NP, CRNA, CNS, CNM). I've heard about some rather strange things in nurse practice acts but have not heard of any state that requires a BSN for advanced practice. Most (if not all) states require at least an MSN. There are many ADN-MSN bridge programs, some of which do not confer a BSN upon completion of the bachelor's level courses, so I would be curious to learn which states might not recognize graduates of these programs.

Stacyann1, just so you know, one can only get a BSN in nursing. BSN stands for Bachelor's of Science in Nursing degree. Some programs actually offer a bachelor of arts degree with a major in nursing and others offer a bachelor of science with a major in nursing but the degree is essentially the same. If you have an MSN-CNL, you will still need to complete an additional graduate degree (MSN or DNP) to be an advanced practice nurse. Some credits might transfer but most programs only accept 8-12 graduate credits in transfer.

I like the idea of the CNL being a generalist master's degree with a clinical focus but wonder how much blurring there might be between CNL and CNS. As CNS jobs seem to be harder to find, I wonder if hospitals are actually replacing them with CNLs or if there's nobody to do some of this work.

onedayitllbeme · May 26, 2011

Thanks Moogie, meant i had bs in computer science, not bsn.

ACorEtACri · May 26, 2011

I do live in very backward state when it comes to nursing that does require a BSN to pursue an MSN in Advance Practice (NP, CMN, ect). If i had gone to the CNL program, I would have had to move to another state to pursue my MSN. Just be sure to look at the nurse practice acts to see what is in the scope of practice and education requirements for each role in your state. This information is usually found on the state's board of nursing website.

Otessa, BSN, RN · May 26, 2011

Considering entering into nursing through a direct entry CNL Masters Program. Do you know of CNL's at your place of work? My plan would be to start my career as a Staff nurse and from there decide when and if I would want to start working in a CNL role. I have seen a couple of very negative posts about CNL programs and CNL's job opportunities.. so just wanted to ask once more, get some feedback.
Thanks!

I don't know of any CNLs in our large hospital system. There are many of our leaders (directors, administrators,etc.) with their MSN, MBA, MS, BSN, etc with different nursing focuses-administration, education, nurse specialist, etc.

When we have a leadership role opening posted there is a requirement of BSN at a minimum and often MS, MSN, or MBA (or actively enrolled in these programs)-never seen CNL as a requirement for any of them.

Moogie · May 27, 2011

I do live in very backward state when it comes to nursing that does require a BSN to pursue an MSN in Advance Practice (NP, CMN, ect). If i had gone to the CNL program, I would have had to move to another state to pursue my MSN.

Would your state also not permit someone with an ADN and a bachelor's in another field to do an ADN-MSN bridge to become an APN? Or would that also be prohibited? Would the state recognize someone who did a distance ed APN program (either as a master's prepared CNL or ADN-MSN)?

I'm sorry to be so nosy. I am just curious about what different states require and am interested in knowing the differences.

I remember a time when all that was needed to become an NP was a certificate program. A BSN was not even necessary.

Sorry to get this slightly off-track. Thanks in advance for your answers!