What/why do they say our classes are fluff?

christvs, DNP, RN, NP · Nov 9, 2016

Wow! Well you certainly have a strong opinion on this matter, and you're not even in a DNP program. I am very offended you call my classes fluff. Do you even realize how that comment of yours feels to DNP students working full time and going to school like me, who spend so much time and energy and love their program?? I think you should keep your comments positive and not be negative. Seriously. Who wants to hear this??

Aromatic · Nov 10, 2016

You still have yet to answer the question regarding what the material is over. Is it science such as anatomy, patho, physiology, pharm, etc?

Or nursing leadership, nursing research, or other soft topics taken from other disciplines and given a "nursing twist"

I am sure we could all work hard at something, just because its "hard" or "time consuming" does not make it useful to our profession.

Also, where I went to school at and where I am in med school at, I had teachers begging me to do their DNP. Looked over the curriculum, and figured it was worthless.

You have to ask yourself how you can use what your learning in practice and also please elaborate on this to us. Is your program useful in practice and how? As in practice, diagnosing, treating, and monitoring physical diagnoses. From what we have seen of most DNP the standards are low and tuitions high and we have convinced many to either stop or not pursue their DNP since they cannot figure out a way in which the degree is useful in patient care. But we do know it makes the colleges easy money.

Ball is in your court.

Trauma Columnist · Nov 10, 2016

Per our terms of service we encourage lively debate. This thread demonstrates respectful disagreement over a DNP program....

While I agree that one probably works hard to obtain a DNP, am not sure it is the direction for all of us.

PG2018 · Nov 13, 2016

Perhaps you should consider going to medical school, as I see how highly you speak of it. I admire physicians with regards to their knowledge and experience but as a nurse I also value our doctorate programs too for different reasons. Especially because I am actually in a doctorate program so I know what I am talking about. Many people with negative comments on the DNP program are not actually in doctorate programs so how on earth would you know what you are taking about? Very sad. And if you don't like the DNP programs?? Then fine, don't be in one. But don't bad mouth them for those of us who believe in them. I will never understand why some in our profession feel it is ok to do this.

I think we know program faculty, grads, etc, have read the curriculum, course descriptions, et al.

PG2018 · Nov 13, 2016

Wow! Well you certainly have a strong opinion on this matter, and you're not even in a DNP program. I am very offended you call my classes fluff. Do you even realize how that comment of yours feels to DNP students working full time and going to school like me, who spend so much time and energy and love their program?? I think you should keep your comments positive and not be negative. Seriously. Who wants to hear this??

The truth hurts particularly when we're not prepared to hear.

I am absolutely positive about doctoral work, and I'm on board to making it a requirement for practice someday PROVIDED the curriculum is composed of clinically relevant material. I'd say half my BSN and MSN each were constructed of clinically irrelevant material low in yield and high in opportunity cost.

JellyDonut · Nov 13, 2016

The DNP has not been around all that long and hopefully over the years they can develop a more clinical based DNP. I would love to see the DNP evolve into areas where NPs could specialize in more areas and learn more advanced procedures. I doubt anything like that happens in my lifetime but we need to make it known to educators and universities who develop these paths that we want more than continued research where we can attain those in the PhD path.

The DNP is perfect for administration who are not on a clinical path and the PhD is the route for research. Now we just need a more hard core clinical path.

Aromatic · Nov 13, 2016

i think the ball rolled out of bounds

The DNP has not been around all that long and hopefully over the years they can develop a more clinical based DNP. I would love to see the DNP evolve into areas where NPs could specialize in more areas and learn more advanced procedures. I doubt anything like that happens in my lifetime but we need to make it known to educators and universities who develop these paths that we want more than continued research where we can attain those in the PhD path.
The DNP is perfect for administration who are not on a clinical path and the PhD is the route for research. Now we just need a more hard core clinical path.

that would be nice. one or two year programs where you can pick a subspecialty and go to town on it

MursingMedic, DNP, RN, EMT-P · Nov 14, 2016

I can appreciate your enthusiasm and enjoyment of pursuing higher education. I, however, am in a DNP program and agree with others that much of it is "fluff."

I'm not being taught to examine scientific literature any more than I did in my ADN to BSN. It will improve with time as I progress through the program, but as someone who is being trained to be a clinical provider of acutely ill individuals I wish some of the leadership, community wellness, and program improvement courses were instead additional advanced pharmacology, diagnostic reasoning, and patho classes.

My current job is as a program coordinator. The capstone examples posed to us for completion in order to be conferred a DNP come straight out of my job description. This degree, while being eventually worthwhile, is focused more in my opinion towards nurses who have limited to no clinical or professional background (approx 40% of my cohort).

PG2018 · Nov 15, 2016

The DNP has not been around all that long and hopefully over the years they can develop a more clinical based DNP. I would love to see the DNP evolve into areas where NPs could specialize in more areas and learn more advanced procedures. I doubt anything like that happens in my lifetime but we need to make it known to educators and universities who develop these paths that we want more than continued research where we can attain those in the PhD path.
The DNP is perfect for administration who are not on a clinical path and the PhD is the route for research. Now we just need a more hard core clinical path.

I'm not quite sure it's even an ideal administration degree although you can apparently become FACHE with it and some experience.

Joebird21 · Nov 19, 2016

So my question is how can this "fluff" be changed? Petitions? Emails to program directors?

MursingMedic, DNP, RN, EMT-P · Nov 19, 2016

So my question is how can this "fluff" be changed? Petitions? Emails to program directors?

I have some theories...

The DNP doesn't have the same rigor as the PhD. This is a selling point for some by being able to market a doctorate without typically requiring a thesis or the detailed research involved. Even though the DNP is described as the clinical, non-research terminal degree for nursing, it is being used for non-clinical tracks that . The DNP is being used as a terminal degree for non-clinical programs that might not have the need for a deep research component (informatics being one). Until a non-research doctorate is designed for non-clinical nurses, the universities will continue to use the DNP as a catch-all because it is:

a) shorter than a PhD and therefore a selling point

b) doesn't require a thesis

c) allows non-clinical graduate nurses recognition alongside their clinical colleagues

Until money comes out of the equation and education is no longer a business, the DNP will never be the clinical degree it was designed to be.

Again, just my thoughts.

PG2018 · Nov 19, 2016

So my question is how can this "fluff" be changed? Petitions? Emails to program directors?

I've sent emails to the dnp programs in my state of residence. Both received no reply.