What is the complaint with nursing salaries?

EdBSN09 · Dec 12, 2005

SmilingBluEyes:

Thank you, Deb (if I may call you by your first name). I appreciate your interest. I will definitely still be around here in five years. I hope to have positive things to report about my progress in the healthcare field. :-)

I've also thought about the possibility of hospitals increasing the use of unlicensed personnel. But with the increasing frequency of lawsuits, I'm not sure that the hospitals want to open themselves up to the liability of having even more unlicensed professionals around. I just don't see that happening. Granted, I'm young and inexperienced, but from the reading I've done and the people I've talked to, this seems like one of the less likely options for health facilities. Procedures can only become more complex, as well, and I would think that it would require more skilled, licensed professionals rather than less. I hope I'm right, at least.

And as far as immigrant workers--I don't think that's as big of a threat as it's made out to be. The information technology industry has seen a similar trend. There was, and is, a shortage of highly-skilled IT workers in this country, and there are a huge number of people from other countries working in the U.S. under H1-B visas to help fill the gap. And IT jobs are often some of the best-paying jobs out there, with above-average wages, benefits, and relatively good employment prospects. Many people said that the immigrant workers would drag down the profession as a whole, but it hasn't happened, and the trends aren't pointing that way, either. The situation for nursing will likely be similar. My hospital employs a decent number of immigrant workers, and they're paid the same salary as the other RNs. My hospital has also bumped up the pay ranges for the third time this year (from $16.55 to $17.20 base for GNs, who move to the Tier II pay range after a year, which is $20.85/hr).

I'm just not sure where I want to take my career after staff nursing, though. I really enjoy information technology, so I've thought about pursuing a degree in computer science or management info systems and helping hospitals utilize their technology more effectively (to make it easier on the staff and on management). This is one place where I personally see a lot of room for improvement in our profession. I just want to make a difference--whether it's one life at a time or for entire hospital systems, I haven't yet decided. :-)

It will certainly be interesting to see where we are in 10 years, though. The healthcare landscape will most certainly be different than it is now. I hope for the better.

LydiaNN · Dec 12, 2005

Everything is relative. I have never felt like that I was paid as much as I'm worth. That's different than saying I'm not paid enough to live on, because I certainly am. I just don't think our profession as a whole rewards the increased contribution we bring to the job with each year of experience and until I do feel that the value of my increased skills and knowledge are recognized, I know that I will feel underpaid. I truly wish all nurses would feel this way, because it is my opinion that the ones with the gee I'm just grateful not to be poor attitude drag all of us down.

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Dec 12, 2005

I hope this does not offend anyone, but doctors are the cheapest bosses.
This is the exact reason why they prefer to hire medical assistants instead of nurses. Many MAs will work for low pay and no benefits. Grocery store clerks are unionized and can earn up to $19 per hour. That's pretty good money for a low-education, low-skilled job. I know whereof I speak: I was once a unionized grocery store clerk.

I'm starting to see that the cost of living has GOT to be WAY higher in Cali (obviously) because in Tennessee, there is no way you'd get 40,000 at a factory and most certainly not $19 in a grocery store. The most I've ever been paid is $8.00. Our local General Mills plant only starts at $15 an hour.

**RosesrReder, BSN, MSN, RN** · Dec 12, 2005

You know, once people start making more money, they spend more too. Like instead buying a hamburger, you start buying a double cheesburger.
You get my point. The bigger the expences, the less money you have left. But I know after I graduate, I will be so happy to pay my bills on time for a change. That's a luxury that I can only dream about right now.

That's where the problem lies. I am barely making ends meet now, but thankfully have 2 raggedy cars paid for but running, a small studio apartment, etc. My husbands has a decent job, and I have a minimum wage paying job.

Now when I graduate, I plan to buy a house (major expense) and upgrade to a more reliable car. Here starting grad pay is 60,000 plus but I don't think I will be around for it. I want to move to a place with a reasonable cost of living, cheaper houses, and will gracefully accept the pay difference. That is just me of course.

Another option is to work a year or 2 here, save as much as I can and move south. :roll

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Dec 12, 2005

I was not directing this at you, but generally to anyone saying they "dont get the complaints about nursing wages".

Well, that was me then. I still think that it's an excellent way to earn a living. I'm a nurse aide and I've been in hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics and I would rather work there than any factory, fast food, retail store. I know about working short, and time management, the families attitudes, etc. I been there and none of that bothers me. I've heard nurse get cussed out on the phone by doctors and I've almost gotten cussed out myself by nurses.. I just take it all in stride and realize we are all under stress. I don't know, it's just my personality to not let things bother me. I used to work with this nurse all the time who complained all night about all the charting and tube feedings, accu checks etc. I just wished she hush and do her job. I know I will love nursing. I can see your point on for some people, it is just different, but I for one will have no complaints. I hope I don't eat my words in five years, but I've been around it so much, I don't think I will. I'll let you know in five years. :lol2:

OliveVinesRN · Dec 12, 2005

Hello there!!! How are you?

Well in relation to your question I must say that I feel that nurses should definitely make more. Nursing is a high-stress job that deserves more recognition. Every time you clock in, you have people's lives in your hands and your subject to the same liability issues as physicians. Knowing that one mistake could result in the loss of my license and end my career, I have to say, $1,000-1,5000 a week is not enough. It's not bad, but I do believe that nursing comes with way more cons than pros. So, we should get paid better and have better working conditions.

James Huffman · Dec 12, 2005

I hope this does not offend anyone, but doctors are the cheapest bosses.
This is the exact reason why they prefer to hire medical assistants instead of nurses. Many MAs will work for low pay and no benefits. Grocery store clerks are unionized and can earn up to $19 per hour. That's pretty good money for a low-education, low-skilled job. I know whereof I speak: I was once a unionized grocery store clerk.

We need to remember that doctors hire cheaper labor when they can because salaries are a huge expense in any business. Which is not to excuse using an unqualified person doing something beyond their abilities, but medical assistants can do a lot of the work in a medical office, and they just don't cost as much as a nurse would.

Anyone who has ever had a business understands this instinctively. Part of keeping any business going is to cut costs whenever possible. Doctors sometimes avoid hiring nurses in such situations not because they don't like or respect us, but because they can't afford us.

Nurses who have a (reasonably) guaranteed salary coming in every week or so might cut a little slack with your doctor colleagues who don't. They have a business to run. Like us, they're in the business of patient care. And like us, they want to make some money doing it.

Jim Huffman, RN

Q. · Dec 12, 2005

I agree with Deb.

To a point nursing pays great especially right out of school, and considering the minimum amount of school you need is an Associates, it's great cash. But it really only pays great if you are traveling or doing overtime.

My problem with salary in nursing is that there is often a cap and as a result, more experienced nurses make relatively less and less. In most other professions, your experience and higher education is rewarded and you are compensated for such. Not in nursing.

I am finally enjoying an income that I think I deserve, though honestly it could be more. And I just started making this income and I am a RN, with a Bachelor's degree and 7 years experience. And, the new graduate nurse isn't that far behind me. Even worse, an entry-level IS professional makes what I make.

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 12, 2005

Well, that was me then. I still think that it's an excellent way to earn a living. I'm a nurse aide and I've been in hospitals, nursing homes, and clinics and I would rather work there than any factory, fast food, retail store. I know about working short, and time management, the families attitudes, etc. I been there and none of that bothers me. I've heard nurse get cussed out on the phone by doctors and I've almost gotten cussed out myself by nurses.. I just take it all in stride and realize we are all under stress. I don't know, it's just my personality to not let things bother me. I used to work with this nurse all the time who complained all night about all the charting and tube feedings, accu checks etc. I just wished she hush and do her job. I know I will love nursing. I can see your point on for some people, it is just different, but I for one will have no complaints. I hope I don't eat my words in five years, but I've been around it so much, I don't think I will. I'll let you know in five years.

Ya know, I hear you. I am like that too, in a way in that I am a '"taking things in stride" kinda gal. I tend not to let things people do at work ever bug or personally affect me. Lord knows, I have been yelled at and called on the carpet by more than one doctor and senior coworker......more times than I could say. In some cases, I deserved/needed those wake-up calls and am grateful for them now.

But let me tell you; it's not about not letting others upset you when they are yelling or verbally-attacking you, etc. It's about the grave responsibilities and personal risks nurses take on in their daily duties. Now, I know you are around the health care environment as an aide, and therefore, see a lot----but let me tell you, that is not the same. Not at ALL.

Let (heaven forbid) you or someone close to you, see your day in court over a decision you made (rightfully and by the policy/procedure manual, mind you)-----have a lawyer or two rip you a new one in a law suit and see how you feel about "taking it in stride". I have had to give depositions (never been personally named in a suit---yet, thank goodness). Several of my coworkers/friends, however, WERE named and had to go to court to defend actions that were by the book, yet were still picked apart, piece by piece, and minute by minute, over weeks and months in court. It changed everything for them. One of them left nursing and got an accounting degree, never to return---she was one of the best we had, what a LOSS. The other is still with us, but will tell you if she had it to do over again, 28 years later, she would NOT have chosen to pursue nursing as a career. Some of the others who had to give testimony are total burnouts and you can see it a mile away. It is very sad.

I have another friend, (one with whom I graduated only 8 years ago), who is permanently physically and emotionally disabled due to an attack on her by a patient. She can't practice nursing anymore except in office work, that that is mighty hard to find---plus pay is pitiful. Her life was forever changed, as were the lives of her family, due to this incident, which happened on a day that started like any other for her. She has had to seek counseling to deal with the emotional stress---and physical therapy to try to get her back in some semblance of working order again. She wishes she never went to nursing school, and has expressed that on more than one occasion. We graduated in 1997, hard to see this happening to someone so soon.....

It's no walk in the park, is all I am saying, and yea, worth a LOT more than factory work or garbage pickup, or cashiering, to me. I am not putting those folks down, but their day to day risks and responsibilities pale by comparision. Few professions take the legal and safety risks nurses and doctors (as well as paramedics/EMTs) do. Military comes to mind, only right now, and their pay is not near what they are worth, either.

THAT is what I mean by pay being commensurate with risk. FutureCNRA, I respect your position----being in a place where no money is coming in, but rather, going out due to going to school----it is very hard to see what all the whining is about. I was there, so were all of us. All I am saying is, I have seen some things in just 8 short years that made me realize the "good pay" I see some making is not always worth it---in terms of risks and liabilities taking in just showing up to work each shift. I pray to God on the elevator up to work each shift, that all in my care are safe, including my patients, coworkers and me. That is how seriously I take my job. I just hope you can respect that sense of grave responsibility I feel when I step off the elevator and begin my shift each day.

Lisa CCU RN, RN · Dec 12, 2005

Hello there!!! How are you?
Well in relation to your question I must say that I feel that nurses should definitely make more. Nursing is a high-stress job that deserves more recognition. Every time you clock in, you have people's lives in your hands and your subject to the same liability issues as physicians. Knowing that one mistake could result in the loss of my license and end my career, I have to say, $1,000-1,5000 a week is not enough. It's not bad, but I do believe that nursing comes with way more cons than pros. So, we should get paid better and have better working conditions.

What mistake could you make that would end your career? It's so strange, but I hear people say they make med errors, but nothing happens, then others are fired for smaller things. Do they teach you this in school?

bookwormom · Dec 12, 2005

Perhaps this isn't totally in line with the discussion, but as a nursing instructor with a MS in nursing and 25 years experience, I make little more than a new grad.

Basically all of us are paid as a factor of market influences.

SmilingBluEyes · Dec 12, 2005

What mistake could you make that would end your career? It's so strange, but I hear people say they make med errors, but nothing happens, then others are fired for smaller things. Do they teach you this in school?

this just shows me how you don't know just yet the liabilities we take on in our work. There are many mistakes that could be made very simply and quickly that could end lives and careers. Fortunately most errors are not that grave---but some are. An allergic patient, for example, given PCN may die. Simple enough mistake----esp when you are being slammed on a med-surg floor with too much to do---mistakes do happen everyday..... Yet it will end a career purty durn quick.

Surprisingly, So can doing things RIGHT-----I can tell you one example of this----doing everything right landed two nurses I know, personally, in court, eached named in a suit along with the doctor. This was a number of years ago, and these nurses use it as a cautionary tale for the rest of us working with them.

The case had to do with peforming NRP by the book, on a "bad" baby and his surviving, but being permanently disabled with C/P. They did EVERYTHING and I mean, EVERYTHING right---and still were sued. Nothing they did caused the condition that led to the C/P, I have to tell you---it was an insult that had nothing to do with medicine at all......

This case changed their perspective and lives forever. It did end one career. The case settled, but for what amount no one can say, including me. It was a LOT of money, I do know. Also know it opened up MY eyes a lot when it was said and done.

Know this: We are held individually and independently responsible for things that make my hair go straight (it's naturally curly lol).

That is what we are trying to TELL YOU.