What is the complaint with nursing salaries?

[Lisa CCU RN]

I don't know, maybe I've been broke too long, but I hear alot of complaints about how you'll never get rich in nursing and how bad the pay is. Well, I look at it this way; I know nurses start out at at least 35,000 to 40,000 a year--that's good money to me. I also know nurses who put in a little overtime and make $1,000 to $1,200 a week. I know that with experience comes pay increases and MSN's are getting $50,000 to $60,000 as NP's and 120,000 plus as CRNA's. In Tennessee this is good money as far as I'm concerned. Is it just that nurses feel they SHOULD be paid more or can you really make more money doing other things? I have been so immersed in nursing and CNA for the past 3 years, I don't even now what other fields pay. I have to account for the job security too--you will always have one. Give me some feedback on this please.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Perhaps this isn't totally in line with the discussion, but as a nursing instructor with a MS in nursing and 25 years experience, I make little more than a new grad.

Basically all of us are paid as a factor of market influences.

It is totally in line. That is a great point, supporting the position many of us have that nurses are not paid what they are worth. It's no place else as clear as it is with nursing instuctors or educators/managers. Many do not make as much as floor nurses do----or just a bit more. Nursing does not reward education or experience well AT ALL. No way should someone with a master's or PhD and years of experience, make as little as many of these folks do.

[MrsStraty]

I have NO complaint. I just graduated in May 2005 with an associates in nursing and I am making $32.67 an hour, alittle over 60 grand a year, and that was starting salary. I live in Dutchess County NY but I travel 40 minutes to Westchester for that money. I work my butt of for it too, but that is ok. The nurse ratio is 1:43.....work at a sub-acute rehab/ltc facility.

MrsStraty RN

[Q.]

What mistake could you make that would end your career? It's so strange, but I hear people say they make med errors, but nothing happens, then others are fired for smaller things. Do they teach you this in school?

There was a tell-tale case in Colorado I believe; 3 NICU nurses were taken to criminal trial for their part in the death of an neonate who was given, what, PCN either wrong dose or route?

2 pleaded out, I believe, though the order was checked by a pharmacist, and the doctor ordered it, and are allowed to practice after suspension. The other maintained her innocence, lost the case, and lost her license and her livlihood.

Does someone remember this case?

[Q.]

I have NO complaint. I just graduated in May 2005 with an associates in nursing and I am making $32.67 an hour, alittle over 60 grand a year, and that was starting salary.

See, and my friends who are instructors (related to the post above) have a master's degree and 10 years experience make about $35,000 annual.

[SmilingBluEyes]

Few new grads have any complaint, I have found. I can't blame them. Going from making NO money to 50 or 60K or more is GREAT to most of us.

I tell you what: The complaining starts when these same nurses advance their education (getting BSN, MSN or more) and gain invaluable skills, yet find they are NOT rewarded at all for their efforts with a compensatory and fair wage---let alone, respect.

Or maybe it happens when they see how used up many nurses become after just a few years at the bedside. Let one ON THE JOB injury happen and see how quickly you are disposed of, with them fighting worker's comp (to which you would be ENTITLED) every miserable step of the way. Let the attitude that a new grad can easily replace you in a heartbeat get to you after a while---the ole "warm body" syndrome that pervades can burn out more than a few nurses......

This is what leads to so much burnout and complaining.

And on the vein of what Q is saying---- I am one who believes a new grad (or one with less than 5 years) is NOT worth the same as an experienced and better-educated nurse. But nursing has yet to recognize that.

I so agree with Suzy (Q)---she is worth a lot more than the new grad with less education/experience. But many places, the minute you step away from the bedside and into management or teaching, you are not rewarded, but often, punished in a way, with poor wages and treatment. This is what so many complain about.

[rach_nc_03]

In my last career, my salary topped out at $127K a year. I didn't live extravagantly; i socked a lot of money away (was paying all the bills and supporting my husband at the time). I used all my savings to live off of in the 3.5 years after i got laid off until i graduated from nursing school. I worked during that last year as a CNA, but my salary basically covered gas and car maintenance, as i had a 100-mile round-trip commute for school every day. During this period, i also went through a divorce and had surgery- something that cost me $20-$25K out of pocket, as i had minimal private health insurance.

My employer pays new grads $18.54 an hour, with night and weekend shift differentials. They hire new grads mostly for day/night rotation, but my schedule worked out through most of the summer and fall to be mostly weekday day shifts. thus, i've been making around $668 a week, or $34.7K a year. My non-nursing friends are horrified by this. I could make more money workin as a clerical office temp. Obviously, i didn't go into nursing to get rich- if i'd been that concerned about money, i would've stuck to my job hunt longer in my old field...in fact, i got 2 job offers from my old employer and one of it's competitors just weeks after i went back to school, making my former salary. I was tempted, but i declined.

no, i don't think we're paid enough in this area. it's a struggle for me to meet my expenses *and* put some savings away. people think cost of living is low throughout the south, but in my part of NC, that's not really true. plus, throw a wrench in the plans (car problems, etc.) and things get all out of whack. right now i'm on unpaid leave because i had hip surgery last month. didn't qualify for FMLA, so i'm not getting paid, have to pay COBRA for my health insurance ($350/month), *and* my employer doesn't have to hold my job, or even find another position in the hospital if my job gets back-filled. we can't get short-term disability insurance until we've been there for 3 years, either. the longer i wait, the less likely it is that i'll get my job back..but if i try to go back before i'm healed, i run the risk of causing permanent physical disability.

sorry that turned into such a rant. i'm a little overwhlemed right now.

back to the subject at hand...$35K a year is offensive, imo, when you consider how physically, mentally, and emotionally brutal bedside nursing is. throw in some unprofessional coworkers and a hostile work environment, and it's a wonder *anyone* will do this job- for any amount of money. I know all positions aren't like this, but far too many are.

bottom line: pursuing a career path for purely monetary reasons is never a good idea, regardless of the field. but to assert that one's *only* motivation should be a passion for caring for people is (as many threads before have discussed) a big reason nurses haven't taken action to demand better pay and working conditions. there should be no shame in nurses expecting fair compensation and respect as the medical professionals we are.

[SmilingBluEyes]

I agree Rachel, with every word of your post. And I know you are a relatively new graduate who does see all this. thank you.

[James Huffman]

Perhaps this isn't totally in line with the discussion, but as a nursing instructor with a MS in nursing and 25 years experience, I make little more than a new grad.

Basically all of us are paid as a factor of market influences.

Actually, I think this is exactly in line with this discussion.

You're right: we're basically paid whatever the market will bear. And the market for nursing instructors doesn't pay well at all. I think this is a problem for the future, since many masters and doctoral prepared teachers are finding they can do better, at least from a financial standpoint, by going back into a clinical setting. The bottom line is that nursing needs good teachers, but the financial incentives are just not there. I'm not sure what the answer is to this issue, but the problem is real.

Jim Huffman, RN

[OliveVinesRN]

You can be textbook precise and still make mistakes. With the increased load of patients and their accuity, most mistakes would lean toward med errors. But you know, if you aren't careful, one wrong med to the wrong patients given by a tired, overwhelmed nurse could result in harm or the loss of a life. We are human and we will make mistakes. I just hope it doesn't end up resulting in harm to a patient.

[Nurse GOODNIGHT]

Agghh. I had another degree as I found a lot of my classmates did also. I agree with most all the posts highlighting the liability, awesome responsibility, very physical work (not kidding), general lack of support in most jobs by mgmnt, co-workers, pts who expect maid service and THE (current healthcare) SYSTEM in general. Being not fresh from high school I knew this staight away(others didn't), but it was still a shock to find working 12+ hours, sometimes without a break or lunch, for $18.02-$19.00. I could have made more with other (i.e. business) degrees with less chance for injury, liability etc. I also find there is a lack of merit raise standardization in nursing. If you really average it out, between the lack of time off, support, liablility, etc. you probably average $10.00 an hour. But, as some have stated, you love helping others and it is rewarding! You are not in it for the money, but it would be nice to be compensated for all that you do. Some earn it, some don't, your integrity determines what is real.

(In my class though, most were really upset at

PS As a caveat, first starting out I was cool too. We all need to stick together--ie All of us(myself included, guilty-not lately though) of clocking out, staying late off the clock, coming in early for a pt, etc, etc. this doesn't help our position. In a normal job, staying late and coming in early to do a good or thorough job is rewarded on your eval. It seems the opposite here.

[imenid37]

Everyone has said it so well...for all that we do and for all that experience means, in comparison to other professions, we are not paid enough. New grad pay is okay, but experience is very poorly rewarded. We are paid a lot more than secretaries or staff at Wal-Mart, but our responsibilities and education are WAY beyond these folks. My friend is an OH nurse at a GM plant. Many of the people on the assembly line make a good bit more than she does. She has 16 years experience as an RN, is a CPR and ACLS instructor, has a BS in emergency health services, and has worked ER,OB, urgent care, and even at the reowned Shock-Trauma unit at U of MD. Yes the people on the assembly line work hard, but she is very highly skilled.

[hipab4hands]

I have to disagree. The last doctor I worked for bought a million dollar mansion, went to Europe for several weeks, had housekeepers/nannies and gardners and then had the nerve to tell me he couldn't afford to give me a raise after working my butt off for 2 years.

I have no problems with the docs making money and having a comfortable life. But, they are doing this at the expense of their staff. I had to work 2 jobs to make ends meet and after being denied a raise, I quit working for the cheapskate. The next clinic I worked for managed to pay well and didn't work thier staff to death.