What can nurses really do to help our dying profession?

-jt · Nov 30, 2000

Originally posted by pmcgovney:

I resent working with AA nurses who get paid the same

In our NYSNA contracts, BSN RNs earn a differential for their degree. Its about $1500 - $2000 or so.

-jt · Nov 30, 2000

[We do not ask a secondary group to filter the message to the public for us. Do you want to be heard without another group speaking for you?]

I've seen this comment repeated several times. Can someone explain what it means? I may be wrong but I think its mistakenly referring to our organizations. The State Associations are not "filtering messages" nor are they"secondary groups"... they are US....working RNs...us.. well, those of us who are members anyway. And it is our message that is getting out loud & clear - just look at all the frontline nursing-issue state legislations that occurred this year alone across the country (needlesticks, whistle-blower,staffing guides,etc). And as far as the public's healthcare education, the RNs in NY for one have had a very successful 5 yr on-going campaign that has raised public awareness of our issues. (see http://www.nysna.org/news/press98/pr012398.htm). I'm all for the MNM but not if its about demeaning the efforts and successes of organized bedside RNs, especially since the MNM has asked those organized RNs to assist & participate.

sicurn497 · Nov 30, 2000

Originally posted by Nikilea:
lea
Originally posted by scg:
Get rid of the bad apples. The nurses that do not continue to grow in professionalism and education. Get rid of the back stabbing ones that act like blue collar workers. Make a BSN the only degree for new nurses. Refuse to be belittled by anyone, and quit repeating the sick quote -nurses eat their young-.
How sad that you seem to believe that 4 years of College makes a better prepared, more professional nurse! I am sad to say that I have worked with my fair share of "highly educated" backstabbers. My greatist fear is that as nurses we continue to create greater chasms with a wave of elitist attitudes toward one another. Are we really a separate entity from the physician model when we too ascribe to the notion that alphabet soup after one's name indicates their level of professionalism?

How sad that you believe BSN better qualifies you for the position of RN or will somehow give this profession more respect.

Non of that is true. It is the way nurses as professionals value themselves and respect each other. I have a two year degree and I'm damn proud of it. I worked hard to get it. I bring lots of value to this profession and I love what I do. I do believe that nurses should be paid better being part of a core staff in instuitions.

I believe you should re-evaluate your opinions. Positive behavior and supporting our co workers is what will change the way our profession is viewed. I question if you yourself are not one of those bad apples you speak of. Perhaps you should look into yourself and see how you could better serve this profession in a more positive way.

sicurn497 · Nov 30, 2000

Originally posted by scg:
BSN nurses are better educated. I resent working with AA nurses who get paid the same and the ANA & NLN should put a stop to it. As nurses we should have a great attitude tword ourselves and each other. We are not a separate entity from the MD. We are an extension of the MD, and always will be (BSN or MSN). The medical profession dosent have half the trouble that the nursing profession has. (brought upon its self)

Again here you go........

BSN nurses are NOT better educated in nursing. When I considered entering this field I had many schools to choose from in my area. In my area their where 2 year programs, a four year program and dipolma program....I researched all of them...

and guess what the four year program was the worst of all of them. The passing rate for boards was poor...when I would go do my clinicals and see how the nurses who were in the BSN program funtioned, they themselves would say that the program did not prepare them for the real world of nursing.

Do you take more credits in the four year program yes...in what area's though.

Not area's that better prepare you to function in a code...certainly not in the areas that better prepare you to deal with issues of healing and death. Very saddly enough you are a stuck up person who somehow believes you're better than all the other nurses on the planet who don't carry a BSN .

I'm feel sorry for you. Because that attitude doesn't fair well it comes to working with professionals. Support and unity are what work...you have a ways to go in that arena. I guess one of those foo foo classes didn't teach you that.

Youda · Nov 30, 2000

Originally posted by justanurse:

I am a nurse, I have an ADN in nursing. Does that make me less able to practice patient care than someone with a BSN? No, it doesn't. Does it make me less likely to fly up the ranks of hospital administration? Yes, and that's ok with me.>>> [END QUOTE]

I hope you all don't blast me for what I'm going to say! ))

28 years ago, I started out as a nursing assistant. Then, I got my LPN. For the next 20 years, I practiced as an LPN. After getting my ADN, I started the BSN program, because I became frustrated with the limitations imposed by my training.

When I was a CNA, I criticized the nurses for "just sitting at the desk" while I did all the hard work. When I became a LPN, I realized how wrong I had been. There's a lot of charting and doctor's orders that require a nurse to "sit at the desk."

As an LPN, I criticized the RNs, because I "did everything they did with half the pay." I have been disgusted with the attitudes of the "professional" nurses who always felt they were better than us lowly LPNs, and the ADNs. And, I say, with no modesty whatsoever, that my clinical skills equalled or surpassed most of the RNs (ADN or BSN) on any given day.

But, when I progressed into the BSN program, I realized how wrong I'd been on all counts; and not because I became indoctrinated into the elite society of a BSN wanna be.

I do disagree with the attitudes of "I'm better than you." But, I have also come to realize that the more you know in nursing, the better you are at what you do. Experience is needed by ANY graduate of any program. There's a lot an LPN can teach a new-grad BSN, and there's a lot a BSN can teach an LPN!

For example, as an LPN, it is legally OK for me to do everything with a central line except put it in. In the BSN program, I am horrified and scared out of my mind that I delivered medications into central lines as an LPN with no understanding of what I was doing and what could go wrong, or what to do if it did!

I believe strongly that we must try to understand the limitations of our training; and recognize that those with advanced degrees most certainly know more. Unfortunately, most of us don't know that we don't know, until we know!

In other words, I'm talking about respect. That's a two way street, though. And, there is much room for improvement from all of us!

pickledpepperRN · Nov 30, 2000

Originally posted by scg:
Your BSN will make you a better nurse, leadership wise. We can all have excellent patient care skills, but that dosen't give nurses political savy for improving our profession,ie..better pay/working conditions.

Nursing and medicine go hand in hand, one can't function with out the other.

Look at what the California Nurses Association is doing. www.calnurse.org

I call that political savy!. Probably 50% have a BSN, but the official position is that we all have the same license. The AACN (American Association of Critical Care Nurses) does not require a BSN for certification. We focus on ability and strength, not letters behind a name. That way we got a safe staffing bill passed and are working to implement it in a way that is best for patient care AND for nurses.

Decades ago I took my certified nursing assistant class. Along with making an occupied bed and taking vital signs I learned how little I knew. I was a good aide because I did not have to attitude, "The RN just sits at the desk". One of the many characteristics that make all of us regardless of title is trying real hard to understand what the other person is experiencing. How can we empathize with the patient without realizing what our fellow workers are going through. Sometimes the housekeeper is expected to be in two places at once. We nurses know how that feels. Isn't cleanliness of the enviornment just as important as assessing the patient? All of our work should be respected.

We should be working for the nurses to control nursing, we should be the ones who care.

Does anyone expect a busy administrator to give more than lip service to nursing care that is the business of the hospital?

Saving nursing is being done with the actions of many nurses.

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[This message has been edited by spacenurse (edited November 30, 2000).]

Tim-GNP · Dec 1, 2000

I can't believe that there are nurses out there that still resist joining their state's nurses association. In my undergraduate nursing program, membership in our state nurses associations student group was mandatory. Physicians belong to their state medical society and A.M.A. They are united and present a unified front, which is why their power is so great. Nurses should belong to their state nurses association. Membership in your state's nurses association includes membership in A.N.A. The amount is automatically deducted from my checking account each month, and works out to $8.84/bi-weekly.

In terms of letting someone else talk for me, that's the whole premise of democracy [we theoretically elect a government that is supposed to represent our interests]. The nurses association is our collective voice in Washington as well as our state's capital. I am actually happy that there is an organization for this [as I have no time to go to Washington and lobby on my own behalf].

If you want to improve the profession in general and your individual working conditions in particular, becoming part of a larger voice is the first step. The system may not be perfect, but it's all we have at present! Join your state's nurses association!!!

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Dec 1, 2000

Reply to Zee re:

In pennsylvania, i have been informed, you can only join the state organization by joining the national organization--which comes to a lot of money. I belong to the association of critical care nurses and appreciate reviewing their literature...would love to go to conferences etc. but how does one fit that in with 40-work-week, kids, house, etc.

PSNA/ANA dues are NOT that expensive!!! As a member of the Delaware County District my dues are $17.57/month (as of 11/2000) which I have automatially deducted from my checking account so I don't really feel the pinch. That is the price of 2 Pizzas per month, or 1 CD, or less than carton of cigarettes, or price of 2 paperback books etc. whatever you use spending money for. At the Oct 2000 state meeting, a dues increase of $75.00 was passed effective Jan 1st. Each County or Disrict has slightly different fee but doesnt vary by more than $5.00 more per month. (I can provide exact amt of each district if needed.) This is cheeper than the $37.50/month I paid in 1996 when our state had a collective bargaining unit. What do I get for my money?

1. Yearly Subscription to AJN, our professional journal.

2. Monthly issue of the American Nurse: our newspaper.

3. Every 2 months The Pennsylvania Nurse: state NSG magazine.

4. Discount on malpractice insurance.

5. Access to PSNA website listserve which brings important healthcare related legislation in PA and Washington to my desktop so I can effectively voice my views with my legislators.

6. www.PSNA.org website with multitude of lisitings from Hot Topics within the state and national arena, legislative links, CE articles, links to ANA, report of state board of nursing meetiings, nursing bookstore... to name a few listings.

7. Access to PA Nursing Practice Advisor for Professional consultaion on nursing practice issues.

8. Govermental lobyist who speaks on behalf of nursing in front of PA government body's and legislators and helps influence nursing legislation:---the reason CRNP's in PA will have independent prescription writing priveleges now!

9. Abilty to network with other nursing professionals.

10. Discounts on ANA certificaion exams

...pretty good bargain for less than $20.00 month!

When you have the passion to care deeply about nursing and life, you can find the time to be involved every other month in a meeting, 1-2 times a year take a CEU program for it helps to give the body a break, and stir up the brain cells. Yes I work fulltime, have 7th + 9th grader, work 1 WE/month , fit in husband, caring for 92yo grandmom, occ mother and...start taking 1 course semester for Masters degree. NOT supernurse but someone who can prioritize, set goals, network, have downtime by suring the web, and doen't mind dust and laundry piles!

" The sky's the limit when your hear is in it."

Mrs.May · Dec 1, 2000

I resent doing the same job and someone getting paid more for the extra letters. If you have a BSN move up in your career and get paid more--but if you are going to work beside the bed with my ASN then you should make what I make!

babs_rn · Dec 1, 2000

Originally posted by ocankhe:
An RN is an RN period. The debate about ADN vs BSN is about the future of Nursing not the past. Going forward the nurses must unite behind one or the other as an entry level degree. Note ENTRY LEVEL. A compromise that I will borrow from the previosly mentioned Educational field, Teachers entry level is a BA/BS degree and they can begin teaching. However to remain in teaching they have to complete their masters in teaching to maintain their ability to teach. Keep the ADN program but make the BSN the degree that has to be obtained after a certain lenght of time. To the rural RN's that are not near a program, there are many accredited on line programs where you can obtain your BSN working at thetime you choose and at your pace.

I have done research on online degrees available and they (1) are prohibitively expensive and (2) require one to travel halfway across the country for clinicals. Can't do that. I am trying to get some type of online degree in ANOTHER field - not nursing because (1) it would make no difference in my nursing career, since management theory is the only difference between the two degree programs and I have a conscience so I can't be a nurse manager, and (2) I want out of bedside nursing, period because the shifts have caused me to be a noncustodial mom and I find that completely unacceptable.

longforseaair · Dec 2, 2000

Kudos to you, Pamela.

I am a new nurse and at least once a week, I entertain the idea of quitting. Not because of the work load or the paperwork, although that can be overwhelming. But because of the way co-workers treat one another.

Let me give you a recent example. I came on one night at 1500 hours. I took report, looked at labs, orders, and MAR's. Then was about to start rounds when a co-worker asked me if I cared if she went home early. I am an agreeable and accomodating person and she was leaving at 1900 hours anyway and we had a low census for once. The other nurse on our unit was also to leave at 1900 hours and she said she didn't mind either. The nurse told me she had checked with the supervisor and all was OK. Well, I ended up taking report on Nurse 1's entire group because Nurse 2 suddenly became unavailable. Nurse 1 had assured me that her group was "easy" and "fine", etc. As she began to give me report, I became concerned because she rattled off almost breathlessly about TPN for one patient that had run out and reordered but hadn't come up and had to have three approvals and a supervisor's phone call (I am elaborating because I can't remember exactly the complicated circumstances) and this problem and that problem, and I gradually became aware that these patients required a lot of care and procedures within the next two hours. There were many things that hadn't been completed and loose ends to tie up. Nurse 1 is very disorganized (everyone knows it) and she is very loud and has an obnoxious accent that I believe she overdoes (just because, to be distinctive, I guess). Before report was over, my mind was mush and I knew I would have to spend time combing the Kardex, orders, and MAR's to make heads or tails out of what she had told me. Meanwhile, Nurse 2 is a "Silent Sam" and upset because she has worked a lot of overtime and Nurse 1 beat her to the punch to get off early. Nurse 2 is concientious and probably wouldn't have done that to us, stick us with her group. She had also had a very long and hard day, her group had kept her running. Nurse 1 doesn't offer to help either.

Before Nurse 1 left, she overheard Nurse 2 complaining to me about her day and that she was upset that we were being dumped on.

Well, Nurse 1 blew up and began to loudly berate us for talking about her behind her back. It is even more hilarious, since Nurse 1 backstabs and talks about everyone! Nurse 1 loudly announced that she "wasn't putting up with our ****" and was staying after all. Then she went to the supervisor and filled her ears with what we had done to her, and we were horrble and incompetent and couldn't handle our jobs, and complained about her for no reason, and her group was "easy", and we only had the few patients, yada yada.

Meanwhile, Nurse 2 was busy assessing and opening notes on two patients she was picking up from my group so that her patients and my patients would all be in the same area. It took me at least ten minutes to get them to agree on how to split the groups. I would have done it but I was not charge.

I told Nurse 2 that I was keeping those patients since Nurse 1 was staying. She insisted that Nurse 1 was indeed leaving because she had given report, etc. and continued to take my patients I had given her.

Well, I went back to Nurse 1 who insisted that she was staying. She was furiously flipping through MAR's and drawing up meds and making it very clear to everyone who walked by that she was overreacting and throwing a huge, immature temper tantrum. She has been a nurse about five years.

So, I only had two patients and was about to pull my hair out. I thought I was dreaming. I was aghast at the way they were behaving and I was put in the middle of it.

And we call ourselves professionals. I feel like I work at a carnival. I see so much chicanery. I wish one night, I could go to work and just work, without all the ********.

I see nurses hide things and tell the assistants not to help other nurses, or even to hide from other assistants to teach them a lesson, etc. I see nurses sweet talk doctors and butter them up and bad mouth other nurses, and lie and make them look really bad. I can't believe the doctors actually fall for it, and I don't think they do. I wonder what they really think about all this?

It's beyond belief?

-jt · Dec 2, 2000

act like blue collar workers -

Is this a referrence to organized labor - collective bargaining? Are you saying that it is unprofessional to be unified & have an EQUAL voice in the decision-making & policies that affect your practice? I think that is actually the height of professionalism & pt advocacy. By the way, I am a member of the New York State Nurses Association,the ANA, and its labor arm - the UAN.... and my collar is white.

FYI: "Is Collective Bargaining Professional" http://www.ana.org/dlwa/barg/index.htm