Weeks pregnant and abortion?

Specialties Ob/Gyn

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this is the only hospital that i have worked at that does abortions. we don't really have guidelines. is there a "legal" gestational age? the 15 year-old pt is healthy...but i guess her age is the reason to say "terminated for the life and health of the mother". i just had a hard time understanding a "19-week" gestation. poor thing was told by physician that it would be an "in and out" procedure. also, i am told he charges the patient a high fee and it must be paid in cash. but we are the ones delivering the fetus and placenta! and because we do this on postpartum, sometimes both nurses are tied up and that leaves our other patients w/o a nurse!

note from moderator: the poster is discribing what (sounds like) an unsafe situation at her hospital and is seeking support and asking for input for affecting change.

please stick to the original topic and not use this thread as a vehicle for a prolife/prochoice debate.

thank you

kids-r-fun

Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

However insulted you may be at hearing this, in the way or morality, if you feel one way strongly (either way), it most certainly IS a matter of prejudice...You may not want to hear that or even agree as that is your choice, but prejudice, by definition, is NOT separate from morality......Not one iota.....No one here is chastizing ANYone for having one view over another..But, when it comes to nursing, prejudice is prejudice, any way you slice it...

Specializes in cardiac, diabetes, OB/GYN.

Prejudice, by the way, is not a dirty word..It is simply a definition..

The fact that these days it is most often linked to racism, makes people a bit testy when the word is tossed their way....As an English major prior to nursing, I can tell you that it is simply a way to define one feels strongly about a topic, subject or matter , which includes and does not eliminate issues of morality.....

Specializes in Gerontological, cardiac, med-surg, peds.

Twisting of words--euphanisms--"good speak"--this is what has fueled the whole abortion debate since '73 and deceived a whole generation of people. No, it's NOT a choice, it's a BABY. And no, it's NOT prejudice, it's MORALITY. And yes, I do think it's very schizophrenic that in the same hospital, one "unwanted" child at 24 weeks can be "thrown away" and allowed to die alone in the dirty utility room, while in another part of the hospital, a team is valiantly fighting to save another 24 weekers' life.

i am for a woman's right to choose.

but this bothers me:

the tiny baby was put in the dirty utility room and left to die.

i'm sorry.

i could not do or allow that in my presence.

i'm not getting into an abortion debate, but that bothers me and i would not do it and i would, i believe, take that baby/fetus/or whatever it is and rush it to another hospital's nicu.

that would be breaking the law, i'm sure, but i would still do it.

jmho. that sounds so very sad. :o

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

this is becoming an abortion debate like I thought.

there are too many threads that address this. and there are NO winners.

Can't we address the OP WITHOUT letting it disintegrate to THIS??????

Can we stay on topic on this one? If not, please take the debate to PM?????

thanks.

Specializes in Telemetry, Case Management.

I do think we have the right to refuse to participate in something that is against our moral or religious beliefs. I would not go in and participate in the actual performing of the abortion, but I think I would have to give after care to the patient. Even though what she did was against my personal beliefs, I would have to give her the same care as I would a girl who had miscarried.

And it's the same for patients who smoke. I will not go downstairs with them and babysit them while they smoke, letting other staff who do smoke go with them (and get their smokes in too), but I of course care for those patients with no prejudice against them.

Other people may do things we don't care for or believe in, but we don't have to participate in those actions, just care for them afterwards.

Just IMHO.

Originally posted by webbiedebbie

This is the only hospital that I have worked at that does abortions. We don't really have guidelines. Is there a "legal" gestational age? The 15 year-old pt is healthy...but I guess her age is the reason to say "terminated for the life and health of the mother". I just had a hard time understanding a "19-week" gestation. Poor thing was told by physician that it would be an "in and out" procedure. Also, I am told he charges the patient a high fee and it must be paid in cash. But WE are the ones delivering the fetus and placenta! AND because we do this on postpartum, sometimes both nurses are tied up and that leaves our other patients w/o a nurse!

I have no clue on the various States rules so I can't help there.

But I have a huge problem with the situation the OP discribes.

How safe is it (for anyone) that the the nurses are doing the deliveries on the PP unit.

How safe is it for one nurse to attend that patient?

How safe is it for the rest of the patients if both of the nurses tied up with one patient?

How are inductions at 19 weeks for fetal demise or miscarriages at 19 weeks handled at your hospital?

It seems to me that an elective termination should be handled exactly the same.

Under no instance would I be involved in an elective abortion. I went to school to learn to HEAL my patients. Never did I take training in harm. When it comes to my moral convictions, this is harm.

Any nurse who feels this is aginst their beleifs, should have every right to refuse care. Alot of nursing is going with your gut, so why should this be any different. As far as delivering the baby during an abortion, the doc who started it needs to come and finish it. I think it is merely a matter of someone not having the ba**s to do the job. I can honestly say that, because I know I sure wouldn't!

This is sooo not a matter of prejudice. This is a matter of moral and relegious beliefs. Predjudice would be me say that I do not understand how any OB nurse could paticipate in such an act.

For those of you who demand a womans right to choose, remember that as a nurse/practitioner/doctor we have a right to choose on this issue as well. Those who would like to demand the procedure and demand my help just based on THIER beliefs, I can only say this. Get down off the cross, cause somebody needs the wood!.

Dave, and yes I voted for Bush. And will vote for him again!

Specializes in OB, Telephone Triage, Chart Review/Code.

Thank you kids-r-fun...I wasn't wanting to start a debate on this.

1. I do not agree that abortion is right.

2. This is part of my job.

3. I need to know how "safe" I am in participating in this and how "safe" the patient is.

4. The doc gets the money, but WE do the delivery, assessment, etc.

We do not have any information at the hospital about abortion laws. No one likes to talk about it. While I do not like to be a part of this, the damage has been done and SOMEBODY has to take care of the patient!

My main question was: Is there a limit to the gestational age. The physician quoted a 19 week gestation. When I palpated her uterus, she seemed to be further along. Thankfully, (for me, not the patient) she did not deliver on my shift. They day shift stated that the fetus appeared to be about 24 weeks.

I have heard that abortion clinics pay their nurses well because there are not a lot of nurses who want to be a part of abortion.

We are running Pit on the patient and I think the legal ramifications are significant to say that this type of patient should not be on a PP floor to deliver a fetus! The amount of time spent monitoring this patient is reason enough to say that she should be in a more controlled setting. We have new moms in rooms next to the one aborting! We are carrying "the bucket with products of conception" down a hallway where families are passing with infants in cribs!

This unit has "always been doing this". HOW CAN WE CHANGE THIS?

Originally posted by VickyRN

And yes, I do think it's very schizophrenic that in the same hospital, one "unwanted" child at 24 weeks can be "thrown away" and allowed to die alone in the dirty utility room, while in another part of the hospital, a team is valiantly fighting to save another 24 weekers' life.

Agreed. While I consider myself pro choice, I think aborting a viable fetus is not right. And I'm glad to say that I work in a Catholic facility, so I don't have to deal with this at work.

In this case, delivering fetuses on a PP unit is just not safe practice, IMO. And I can't believe there is not a doc in attendance.What if there is a problem with a retained placenta, or hemorrhage? Sounds very unethical and dangerous. I hope you can help to institute some change at your facility, Debbie.

Vickie ,

I understand your not wanting to care for AB's . We use to cover for a nurse that didn't like to do them ( abs ) due to her religious beliefs . we all understood & if possible would trade with her . One time when it wasn't possible she cared for the girl & took very good care of her . I was so proud of her because I understood how difficult it was .

The bible says judge not lest ye be judged ......... sometimes this is difficult , but we all have done things we are not proud of . I believe this is between that person & God . NO ONE else matters .

Pattie

Debbie ,

I understand where you are coming from too . It is uncalled for to be doing AB's ( VIP's or otherwise ) of any gestation on a PP floor . Call your local board to see where to start first .

Good Luck

Pattie

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