Was I justified in writing up Nursing Assistant?

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Hello All... Hope u can help me with this as I've only had to write someone up only one other time. Worked the 3-11 shift Saturday night with 7 staff and 27 patients. It was 6:00pm and 3 nurses were off the floor at dinner. Myself and another NA were busy showering a patient who had just had a huge involuntary. So this left 2 other nurses out on the floor to answer calll bells. In the midst of showering, this NA comes into the room and states that he took it upon himself to page the other nurses back to the unit b/c it was just too crazy and then promptly left the room without giving me time to respond to him. (Since the assigned charge nurse was at dinner, I was in charge). Just a few minutes later the nurses that were paged arrived onthe unit, madder than hell of course!!! The charge nurse comes to me and asks if I was the one who told this particular NA to call them back from their dinner. I stated that no, I did no such thing. She said that this NA told her that I told him to have them paged back. At this point both of us were fuming mad:angryfire. Especially since there was only one call light ringing when they arrived back on the unit!!! Well..... I asked this NA to meet me in the report room, that we needed to chat. I confronted him and asked him why he said that I told him to call. His reply was this "well, I knew that since I'm only a NA that I wouldn't be able to have the authority to page them back, so that's why I said you told me to do it." I told him that I didn't appreciatte his lying and that he needed to speak with me first before making such phone calls. He apologized and said that "I didn't mean to implicate you." Well, both myself and the Charge nurse were so ticked off at him that we both wrote him up. This isn't the first time he's done something like this either. He thinks that he knows everything and is constantly telling the licensed staff what to do. He will argue with you and demand that you do things his way. He has no respect for anyone that is in charge.!!:angryfire He even was kicked out of nrsg school because he mouthed off one too many times to an an instructor and was fired from his last job for sleeping.

Anyways.... would u guys have written him up also or should I have went abut this differently?? I talked to my boss yesterday(after she received the letter) and she said she would speak to him. I don't like to get anyone in trouble but I think someone like him needs put in their place.

Specializes in Med-Surg.

If you've had this talk with him before, as you said it wasn't the first time he's done this, then yes, you were justified in writing him up. This type of behavior needs documentation.

If it were a first offense, I would have said, no just let it go with the verbal talk. Good luck.

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Specializes in Neuro, Critical Care.

I wouldn't have been happy either if someone was using my name without my permission. IMO you were justified, I dont think you were on a power trip.

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Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

Well first he lied...then he tried covering it up. If you don't want to call it writing up...call it an anecdotal paper trail. I would bet that would be the last time your name was taken in vain.

It looks to me that he thinks he can manipulate situations and up til now got away with it. I guess he wasn't fired for sleeping, but for "meditating" like one tech I had.

He was found lying on the floor in the conference room, head on a pillow, wrapped in a blanket, snoring with a tabloid paper beside him. Meditation is funny.

Second the charge nurse needs a little birdie to let her know that half the staff off the floor at the same time is STUPID! Been there, seen that pitched, a fit.

Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail.

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Specializes in 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER.
I think he was just trying to help out. 3 people gone at one time for lunch is a LOT. No wonder you were struggling. That isn't fair to the rest of the team. I think that both you and charge were on a power trip. I wish I got to go off the floor at lunch... I never, ever am able to eat uninterupted unless my patients decide to sleep during my lunch time. Must be nice... while everyone deserves a break, and my situation isn't common practice, this nurse should understand that if things are "going crazy" up on his or her floor she should expect to be called back. Get off the trip and get back to work!! :-)

Lying doesn't help anything, which is what he did.

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You know, I think the fact that he lied deserves to be written up. Also you said this wasn't the first time he's done this. He's also bossy and uses bully tactics to get his way. Unfortunately the world isn't like that. I think you and the Charge nurse did the right thing by writing him up. There's reasons why charge nurses are charge nurses and there's definately a reason you were left in charge while your charge nurse went for well deserved dinner break. He probably wasted precious time calling them back from their break.

People freak out for trivial reasons sometimes and this guy really "jumped the gun" by interupting other staff's breaks. And to go above your head and make hastey decisions is very irresponsible. What other decisions does he make on the RN's behalf without telling them? He could make a serious error and kill someone. I'd be afraid of that.

I would even go further than just writing him up and recommend that he be under close supervision for the sake of "patient safety". I work in a Long Term Care facility part time. I also work in Palliative Care and Oncology. Sometimes the PSW's get pushy and bossy but ultimately, the decisions are mine to make. But if you are the one who's been left in charge, then the staff have to respect that. If he doesn't respect that, then what's he doing there? You and the rest of the RN's can also consult each other and keep the lines of communication open and assume that whatever comes out of his mouth is a lie.

I think there's people like him everywhere who know everything about everything. They are funny people and shouldn't be trusted. Write him up every time he does something like that and eventually he'll either learn his place and do his own job or he'll get tossed out.

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Specializes in home health, LTC, assisted living.
:lol2: You know what? I feel like a babysitter some days where I work. :banghead: Some people just will not accept direction.
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I think he was just trying to help out. 3 people gone at one time for lunch is a LOT. No wonder you were struggling. That isn't fair to the rest of the team. I think that both you and charge were on a power trip. I wish I got to go off the floor at lunch... I never, ever am able to eat uninterupted unless my patients decide to sleep during my lunch time. Must be nice... while everyone deserves a break, and my situation isn't common practice, this nurse should understand that if things are "going crazy" up on his or her floor she should expect to be called back. Get off the trip and get back to work!! :-)

Funny how the aide didn't offer to take over showering the patient so the nurse could assess the situation on the unit and make the determination of whether or not to call staff back from lunch. :rolleyes:

The poster also indicated that there have been past issues with this person without going into too much detail. This CNA arbitrarily decided to make a decision and invoked the use of another's name in doing so. I consider that serious and that should be written up.

The poster didn't indicate that she was struggling or that the unit was "going crazy" nor did she indicate whether or not it was busy when 3 staff went to lunch, the unit may have been quiet at that time. The aide stated he felt it was "just too crazy" and that he paged the staff back and then left without allowing the poster to ask even 1 question about what was going on. It may have been appropriate to call one staff member back, but was it appropriate to call all 3 back.The aide might very well have been correct in his assessment of the situation, however he didn't call and say to the Charge Nurse "I feel the unit is too busy to have 3 staff away at this time, someone should come back." He also didn't say to the poster "I feel the unit is too busy and we should call someone back from lunch. Let me take over assisting with this patient so you can take care of the problem." I personally wouldn't have a problem if an aide did any of this. I would have a problem with anyone who took it upon themselves to make their own decision and implement it in MY NAME.

She also didn't indicate the acuity/stability of the patients on the unit. She also didn't indicate whether the Charge Nurse had a patient assignment (can make a difference). She also didn't indicate whether she felt it was appropriate for 3 staff to be off on lunch at that time, it might very well have been appropriate to allow 3 staff to go to lunch if the unit was quiet and the patients stable at the time they left. What was indicated that aside from her there was 2 other nurses on the unit (who could have called themselves for staff to return if necessary) and aside from the aide assisting her with a patient, there was this aide also on the unit. She also didn't indicate whether the other 2 nurses thought the sitution warrented calling back staff from lunch.

After receiving the complaint about the aide, the poster mentioned she talked to her boss, she didn't indicate whether her manager thought it was appropriate for 3 nurses (one Charge who may or may not have had an assignment) to be on lunch at one time, while leaving 3 nurses and 2 aides covering the unit.

I've never had a problem with any CNA wanting to discuss what they may feel is an issue or concern on the unit or with a patient or if they feel another nurse is not addressing an issue or concern with their patient. In fact I encourage it whether or not I am Charge for that night.

I too wish I could go off the unit and enjoy the breaks that I am entitled to under state labor laws, our employers don't seem to think we are entitled to the same rights as another worker.

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Specializes in Operating Room.
Funny how the aide didn't offer to take over showering the patient so the nurse could assess the situation on the unit and make the determination of whether or not to call staff back from lunch. :rolleyes:

The poster also indicated that there have been past issues with this person without going into too much detail. This CNA arbitrarily decided to make a decision and invoked the use of another's name in doing so. I consider that serious and that should be written up.

The poster didn't indicate that she was struggling or that the unit was "going crazy" nor did she indicate whether or not it was busy when 3 staff went to lunch, the unit may have been quiet at that time. The aide stated he felt it was "just too crazy" and that he paged the staff back and then left without allowing the poster to ask even 1 question about what was going on. It may have been appropriate to call one staff member back, but was it appropriate to call all 3 back.The aide might very well have been correct in his assessment of the situation, however he didn't call and say to the Charge Nurse "I feel the unit is too busy to have 3 staff away at this time, someone should come back." He also didn't say to the poster "I feel the unit is too busy and we should call someone back from lunch. Let me take over assisting with this patient so you can take care of the problem." I personally wouldn't have a problem if an aide did any of this. I would have a problem with anyone who took it upon themselves to make their own decision and implement it in MY NAME.

She also didn't indicate the acuity/stability of the patients on the unit. She also didn't indicate whether the Charge Nurse had a patient assignment (can make a difference). She also didn't indicate whether she felt it was appropriate for 3 staff to be off on lunch at that time, it might very well have been appropriate to allow 3 staff to go to lunch if the unit was quiet and the patients stable at the time they left. What was indicated that aside from her there was 2 other nurses on the unit (who could have called themselves for staff to return if necessary) and aside from the aide assisting her with a patient, there was this aide also on the unit. She also didn't indicate whether the other 2 nurses thought the sitution warrented calling back staff from lunch.

After receiving the complaint about the aide, the poster mentioned she talked to her boss, she didn't indicate whether her manager thought it was appropriate for 3 nurses (one Charge who may or may not have had an assignment) to be on lunch at one time, while leaving 3 nurses and 2 aides covering the unit.

I've never had a problem with any CNA wanting to discuss what they may feel is an issue or concern on the unit or with a patient or if they feel another nurse is not addressing an issue or concern with their patient. In fact I encourage it whether or not I am Charge for that night.

I too wish I could go off the unit and enjoy the breaks that I am entitled to under state labor laws, our employers don't seem to think we are entitled to the same rights as another worker.

Great Post!!!

In addition, if it were a "crazy night", the charge nurse might have known that if the three didn't go when they did, they may not have gotten a lunch at all. There are many factors to consider.

I worked as a Nursing Assistant for years, then as a Surgical Tech for many more years. I would have NEVER even considered making a call like that. If it had been as busy as he claimed and an RN was needed immediately, he should have taken over the shower so the charge nurse could be freed up to handle the situation!!!! I have done that many times!! Knowing where you can "assist " a nurse is crucial to be a team player and a good assistant. It always drove my insane when a CNA would act as though the only patients on the floor were the ones they were assigned to. I was there to help make the patients feel better and assist the nurses. If it meant that I help a patient that I wasn't assign to, so be it.

I think the poster is more than justified in writing this guy up.

It sounds like he has a HUGE problem with having to work under the direction of an RN because of getting kicked out of nursing school.

It sounds like he doesn't pay any attention to where his legal boundaries are and doesn't have any intentions of changing. :nono:

It is really kind of scary to think what else he may take upon himself to do!

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Jen7893 "It is really kind of scary to think what else he may take upon himself to do!"

Exactly. The next time this person may decide to do something that results in a patient being harmed. HE LIED, why?

hhrhrn41 "This isn't the first time he's done something like this either. He thinks that he knows everything and is constantly telling the licensed staff what to do. He will argue with you and demand that you do things his way. He has no respect for anyone who is in charge!! He even was kicked out of nrsg school because he mouthed off one too many time times to an instructor and was fired from his last job for sleeping"

I would consider a person described like this as a potential danger in the hospital/LTC setting. Writing a formal report and making yourself a copy is one way to CYA if your dealing with management that does not want to deal with a problem employee. If something happens, you have proof that his behavior has been repeatedly reported by staff in writing and it was management who continued to allow this person's behavior.

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It seems like this concept of "writing someone up" and "putting them in their place" further seperates the healthcare environment into a regimented military experience instead of promoting a team player module.

There should be a policy of checks and balances in place, however a nursing unit is fluid and changes by the moment. It is important for everyone to be able to rely on one another, be supportive and respond appropriately when disaster happens, whether it's a meal that was not delivered to a patient (this happened on my shift yesterday and the unit director wrote up an INCIDENT report against the unit secretary for failing to enter the order on the computer upon admission!!!) to a code response.

Perhaps the final outcome should hinge on the degree of damage, if any resulted from the incident. Otherwise, we are all put in a position of looking over our shoulders and pulling the knife out of our backs at the end of our shift lest some co worker has an agenda/vendetta against us.

Don't you agree that on any given day all of us could be "written up" for some deviation and called on the carpet? It could be anything, from hanging an IVPB 5 minutes late to failing to answer a call lite fast enough.

If you really are splitting hairs, let's face it, none of us conforms 100 % of the time. If you have a dangerous co worker who does not give a damn and is a hazard to patients or the department overall, then that should be brought to someone's attention, however I feel that the punishment should fit the "crime".

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It seems like this concept of "writing someone up" and "putting them in their place" further seperates the healthcare environment into a regimented military experience instead of promoting a team player module.

You know, since you put it that way, I agree. I generally try and be a team player. That word "regimented" just makes the hair on my neck stand up. I didn't mean "putting them in their place" by making someone feel bad (even if that's what it appeared to be). Sometimes someone has to take "charge" of a situation. I think when I read the original post on this subject, it reminded me of some situations I've been in when a coworker can't handle whatever's in front of them and jumps the gun. It ended up affecting everyone on the team. I am a "team" person. Sometimes as the charge nurse or night supervisor, I have to take charge of a situation. Everyone has to know who to turn to for direction in an emergency. And everyone has to be able to trust and rely on who's in charge for direction and support. He went over her head and broke up the team. Excuse the cliche but a team is only as strong as it's weakest link. Maybe he needs to be reminded that he's a valuable member of the team and she counted on him to inform her that things were getting busy outside the shower room. But yes, yer right.

Don't you agree that on any given day all of us could be "written up" for some deviation and called on the carpet? It could be anything, from hanging an IVPB 5 minutes late to failing to answer a call lite fast enough.

I could probably count how many times I could have been written up for various things here and there. And in fact, that happened to one of my work buddies. She had just finished her RPN -> RN program and got her licence. She was nervous and one of the families called administration from the patient's room because she was five minutes late getting pain meds to her patient. So, the nursing director takes a visit to our floor to reprimand my work buddy. I was stunned. I interrupted the conversation to set the nursing director straight that it wasn't five minutes. It was in fact three minutes. I was so offended that she didn't even give my coworker a chance. I accused her of harrassment and threatened to call the union if she didn't leave "my staff" alone. Then I said, "unless yer here to help, please excuse us and allow us to get the work done." So, I got written up for insubordination. I'm alright with that though. Sometimes I get a little too defensive of my work buddies.

If you really are splitting hairs, let's face it, none of us conforms 100 % of the time. If you have a dangerous co worker who does not give a damn and is a hazard to patients or the department overall, then that should be brought to someone's attention, however I feel that the punishment should fit the "crime".

I agree with you on that too. It's hard to conform 100% of the time. It's hard to conform 50% of the time. It's too hard!!!! What is suitable for this situation? Maybe the charge nurse, nurse manager, the nurse left in charge and this guy should have a meeting. He should be told that he did a big "no-no" by breaking up the team. That's where I think the danger is.

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Specializes in Utilization Management.
Anyways.... would u guys have written him up also or should I have went abut this differently?? I talked to my boss yesterday(after she received the letter) and she said she would speak to him. I don't like to get anyone in trouble but I think someone like him needs put in their place.

The write-up is in order because you must take a zero tolerance on lies, manipulation and constant challenges to your authority. This is not a counseling session, nor is it a feelgood party, this is a J.O.B. and if a worker cannot understand his scope of practice, he needs to find another job.

Who knows, with his penchant for ordering people around, he might do very well at McDonald's.

Knowing his background doesn't cut him any slack IMO. It should have the opposite effect, if anything, because he clearly understands the scope of his practice as a CNA. I get the sense from the OP that he DELIBERATELY overstepped his bounds in this situation. That he clearly knew his job description is evident when he said, "I had to use your name to get the others to come back from break."

This guy would be treading on some very very thin ice with me.

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