Video RN screaming, dragged into police car d/t refused blood draw on unconscious patient!

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Has 33 years experience.

Blood draws and imaging are required to diagnose the reason for the mental status change. Unconscious patients cannot give consent. Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement.

Both the cop and the nurse were drama queens.

JKL33

6,469 Posts

I was surprised there was not a mob of nurses, Dr's, techs etc out there to stand up for the nurse. I have a feeling that where I work that it would have been a much different scene.

I think that would have been exceedingly unwise. Situations like this shouldn't be about additional adrenaline and bravado. Those who were properly trained to potentially have to take down or subdue this "gentleman" (and I use that term ever so loosely) should have intervened in accordance with accepted techniques for handling of such a situation, and anyone not so trained should continue to do what they are trained to do (take care of and secure patients). It's not a matter of "not sticking up for" someone, but it IS about the idea that people tend to not act sensibly or safely when overtaken by emotion.

MunoRN, RN

8,058 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience.
Blood draws and imaging are required to diagnose the reason for the mental status change. Unconscious patients cannot give consent. Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement.

Both the cop and the nurse were drama queens.

Patient information is not "easily available to law enforcement", a blood draw is legally considered a search and seizure and there are well defined requirements for overriding a person's rights, violating those rights is in fact a big deal.

SummitRN, BSN, RN

2 Articles; 1,567 Posts

Specializes in ICU + Infection Prevention. Has 11 years experience.
Blood draws and imaging are required to diagnose the reason for the mental status change. Unconscious patients cannot give consent. Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement.

Both the cop and the nurse were drama queens.

The reason for mental status change was simple: The patient was RSI'd by the paramedics in the field following a head-on MVA and severe burns, then it was maintained by the ED and ICU.

My understanding is this crap show went down with the patient in the Burn ICU.

You seriously need to read before you post.

Has 14 years experience.

I'm new to this, so real question here... when you say "Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement" does that mean every ER admission includes a blood alcohol/drug screening?

LadysSolo

411 Posts

I will not be happy unless that sorry excuse for a LEO loses his job and has to pay her a princely sum for his bad case of "short man syndrome" or whatever excuse is come up with for his behavior! Ridiculous! And after the bad behavior I have seen recently, I no longer trust any LEO.

operations

128 Posts

If any of you making these insensitive comments about this woman and plan on being a nurse or are a nurse, you should be greatly ashamed. We're the one profession that absolutely mandates sensitivity, empathy, and respect for our patients and each other

What if this victim nurse is a member of this forum and reads this post? How do you think she would feel when people say insensitive things? This is like the first thing they teach you not to do in nursing school and some of you still have trouble with this.

Choose your words wisely especially since the victim may be a member of this forum.

"drama queens". I can't believe someone actually said that... Please choose a different career nursing is not for you. That may go for "you have poor critical thinking" woman too (what an ironic statement) but I think she just wanted to butt in and say something for a power trip after loosely skimming over everything.

Has 33 years experience.
I'm new to this, so real question here... when you say "Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement" does that mean every ER admission includes a blood alcohol screening?

The ER doc needs to rule out any cause for presenting unconscious. I would want a tox screen for my patient. How else could I treat them?

Now it's up to the cops to charge them.. with whatever.

JKL33

6,469 Posts

The more I think about this the more it bothers me and the crazier I think it is, and I've already said I suspect he is a sociopath.

He literally attacked an employee who was acting in accordance with her employer's written policy (which is rather "standard" by all appearances), which she gave him the benefit of actually (and calmly) showing TO HIM. She acted very professionally but I suspect part of her apparent calmness is that she is also already SCARED in the portion of the recording we're talking about.

How does this guy not just drop this conversation and take it up with an authority figure within the organization? It is certainly not an emergency that he have ANY particular information.

So very disturbing.

JKL33

6,469 Posts

The ER doc needs to rule out any cause for presenting unconscious. I would want a tox screen for my patient. How else could I treat them?

Now it's up to the cops to charge them.. with whatever.

The patient in question is a victim of an incident initiated by another individual and the LEOs' high-speed pursuit of said individual.

We do not need a tox screen for every situation in the ED, including one like this.

Even if we did get one, LEOs don't get to walk in and demand to know our findings in such a manner. They may have a "right" to the information, but there is an accepted procedure for determining that and for releasing the information to them.

MunoRN, RN

8,058 Posts

Specializes in Critical Care. Has 10 years experience.
The ER doc needs to rule out any cause for presenting unconscious. I would want a tox screen for my patient. How else could I treat them?

Now it's up to the cops to charge them.. with whatever.

That doesn't make much sense, for treatment purposes, those caring for the patient can draw any labs, run any tests that are necessary for treating the patient. Blood samples drawn to be included in a criminal case are a very different thing, which is why we typically don't draw those labs for police and why this particular officer was a phlebotomy certified officer. For evidence purposes, there are clear requirements for obtaining those blood samples, which were not met in this case, so no blood can be drawn by the officer.

JBudd, MSN

1 Article; 3,836 Posts

Specializes in Trauma, Teaching. Has 42 years experience.
Blood draws and imaging are required to diagnose the reason for the mental status change. Unconscious patients cannot give consent. Any results of the ER work up would be easily available to law enforcement.

Both the cop and the nurse were drama queens.

Shame on you. I watched several versions on the net, from different networks, you tube; this nurse was in no way a "drama queen". She followed protocol, called admin for back up, showed the idiot the policies, in a calm voice told him his own department had agreed to it.

HE escalated the situation, making threats, and moved so aggressively at her that she was backing up in fear. He had already been making threats about abusing the ER for obstructing him.

No, law enforcement cannot access ER charts without a warrant, exactly as she was telling him. Yes, they had already done tox reports, as it turned out (to be within that first hour he was fussing about); but that is still private and protected information.

He was not a drama queen, he was a jerk on a power trip.