Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

I AM a veteran! And proud.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
1 minute ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

I AM a veteran! And proud.

Hey me too! LOL...#METOO. ????

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.
Just now, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Hey me too! LOL...#METOO. ????

Thank you for your service, sincerely.

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Specializes in Critical Care.
15 hours ago, jive turkey said:

We didn't just  learn the effects of handwashing 9 months ago.  

You are not injecting washing in your body.  

Everyone agrees there are requirements to do the job safely.  Not all things are the same Munro. You can't equate hand washing to injectables. 

Handwashing is not without adverse effects, and I've often wondered if the much of the attempts to rationalize opposition to vaccines was just so people wouldn't have to admit they are too afraid of needles to get vaccinated, which at one point I thought sounded silly.

1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

1.There most certainly was an outburst.  You can substitute "utter bs" with "strongly disagree".  

2. The dead tree is you debating with me statistics.  You're countering things I don't disagree with you on.  How about you read the 48 laws of power and books regarding building wealth. 

I'm often left with the impression there are those who find comfort believing the wealthy and the powerful are always doing what's in our best interest.  Questioning or challenging their behaviors and motives makes things uncomfortable.  They cope with that discomfort by accusing people of being conspiracy theorists.  I'm not accusing you of anything rather speaking to the impressions I get.

Suggesting people be aware of the possibilities considering there are profit motives, patents on viruses,  and risks for corruption wherever money is involved is not a conspiracy theory.

3. Let me reflect the attitude of that statement back to you:

"If you don't want to sit in the back of the bus, walk"

"If you don't like this confederate statue, move"

"If you don't like my cigarette smoke, go to another restaurant"

"If you don't want to stand for the anthem, go to another country"

"If you don't like us talking about sex at work, get another job"

"If you don't want to take this new 9 month old drug for a disease we're still learning about that may or may not be beneficial for you and if it hurts you we aren't going to do anything for you, get another job"

 

People here are free to disagree with you without you attempting to badger them into thinking that isn't allowed, that's a bullying behavior and shouldn't be tolerated.

 

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Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

Human rights violations are not the same as vaccine mandates.

Frankly I am disappointed and disgusted at that comparison.

AGAIN (echo)))))))  Refusing a shot and quitting a job is not akin to losing your human and constitutional rights.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
1 hour ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

And by the by, if I had the choice of a traditional vaccine, I'd take it. But I don't have that choice at the moment. 

What do you mean by a traditional vaccine? There are lots of different technologies used in the last 200 years.

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Specializes in Adult Internal Medicine.
1 hour ago, jive turkey said:

The dead tree is you debating with me statistics.   Questioning or challenging their behaviors and motives makes things uncomfortable. They cope with that discomfort by accusing people of being conspiracy theorists.  

Many of your arguments are very easily countered with facts and statistics. Here is another example.

You have, several times, posted about your concern about the CDC filing for a patent on a virus genetic sequence. This comes directly from the "Plandemic" conspiracy theory and it is based on the CDC filing for a patent for the original SARS virus in 2003, because at that time there were several private companies racing to file a patent on the genetic sequence in order to gain monopoly on testing and treatment. At that time it was allowed under law. In 2013 a case was brought before the Supreme Court and it was ruled that "A naturally occurring DNA segment is a product of nature and not patent eligible". This has zero to do with covid as it became a non-issue 8 years ago. 

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Specializes in Critical Care.
31 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

The reference is often made regarding mandates for other vaccines.

It's important to distinguish between them:

-The other's aren't a few months old

-The disease is still not fully understood

-Most often, the employee was aware of the vaccine requirement before hire, not compelled to take or quit during.  No not always.  

-Alternatives have been offered (vax or mask for flu vaccine)

-titers accepted in lieu of vaccine (varicella)

 

We currently have more critically ill patients due to Covid than all other causes, more than 3 time more to be specific, we've also had our first child death (under 10 years old) which is the 9th young child death in the state of this wave, and we're just starting to get into the phase where deaths occur.  The adult critically ill are mostly in their 40's otherwise healthy, most are already to the point where their starting an inevitable weeks long journey to death at best, survival with severe disability at worst.  

There's always more to learn about everything, but your suggestion that we're still trying to figure out if Covid is a really bad thing is a bit absurd.

Varicella titers are commonly accepted as substitute for vaccination because varicella infection imparts life-long immunity, this is not true for Coronavirus infections including Covid.

33 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Freedom means everything. Ask any veteran. 

Freedom doesn't mean the ability to freely put others in harms way and to directly cause harm to others.  That adolescent amorality, not freedom.

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1 minute ago, BostonFNP said:

Many of your arguments are very easily countered with facts and statistics. Here is another example.

You have, several times, posted about your concern about the CDC filing for a patent on a virus genetic sequence. This comes directly from the "Plandemic" conspiracy theory and it is based on the CDC filing for a patent for the original SARS virus in 2003, because at that time there were several private companies racing to file a patent on the genetic sequence in order to gain monopoly on testing and treatment. At that time it was allowed under law. In 2013 a case was brought before the Supreme Court and it was ruled that "A naturally occurring DNA segment is a product of nature and not patent eligible". This has zero to do with covid as it became a non-issue 8 years ago. 

I didn't and don't plan to watch Pandemic.  Sounds like an extremist video from what I heard about it.

The information you cited is what the CDC said was their reasoning for it.  That may or may not be true.  Just because they said that doesn't mean someone should just believe it and leave it alone.  By the way, they succeeded in acquiring a patent on it.  Another pharm company applied for a patent similarly shortly thereafter.  Turns out this has been common practice.  I'm not just picking on the CDC.  Does it not give you concern this is a practice?

What other arguments have I presented that you can counter with statistics?  I'm receptive.

 

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55 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Freedom means everything. Ask any veteran. 

I'd ask this one but can't because he died of a relatively treatable condition because all the hospitals in his area were too full of unvaccinated Covid patients.

Veteran Dies from Treatable Illness Because of Hospital Covid Crisis (mediaite.com)

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Specializes in A variety.
22 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

We currently have more critically ill patients due to Covid than all other causes, more than 3 time more to be specific, we've also had our first child death (under 10 years old) which is the 9th young child death in the state of this wave, and we're just starting to get into the phase where deaths occur.  The adult critically ill are mostly in their 40's otherwise healthy, most are already to the point where their starting an inevitable weeks long journey to death at best, survival with severe disability at worst.  

There's always more to learn about everything, but your suggestion that we're still trying to figure out if Covid is a really bad thing is a bit absurd.

Varicella titers are commonly accepted as substitute for vaccination because varicella infection imparts life-long immunity, this is not true for Coronavirus infections including Covid.

Freedom doesn't mean the ability to freely put others in harms way and to directly cause harm to others.  That adolescent amorality, not freedom.

1. Was that disputed?  Not sure why you shared that

2. What's absurd is how you twisted my words around to say something completely unlike what I originally said.  I didn't say nobody knows if its a bad thing I said the disease isn't fully understood.  

3. I didn't say it imparted life long immunity.  And the vaccine doesn't either. A lifetime hasn't passed for you to conclusively say that about the previously infected.  Various sources say different things regarding the length of natural immunity

4. Yet we put people in harms way every day legally.  You want to go there and have me show you all the various ways we do?

 

Munro help me understand your perspective.  In summary I have said:

-Everyone talk to their doctor to see if the vaccine is appropriate for them

-If someone never had it, I favor them taking the risk from the vaccine over the risk of getting COVID the first time

-If someone already had COVID, talked to their doctor, wasn't high risk, I can respect them not wanting to take it.

-stop the criticism and disrespect of the unvaccinated

Every time I post you have an objection which is fine.  Whats wrong to you about the above?

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
6 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

I'd ask this one but can't because he died of a relatively treatable condition because all the hospitals in his area were too full of unvaccinated Covid patients.

Veteran Dies from Treatable Illness Because of Hospital Covid Crisis (mediaite.com)

Your strawman has nothing to do with my statement. Freedom is still, and always will be worth everything. I guarantee that veteran would agree with the premise.

Guess what. If there wasn't so much team sport stuff in this debate, maybe the vaccination rates would be higher. If there wasn't so much mixed messaging from government, maybe their would be less distrust. Media ite is extremely blue partisan and biased. You go to the Washington free beacon, you'll see counter stories of vaccine injury. The story would translate to "the corrupt state is trying to kill your children with dangerous vaccines." 

What do you want? I'm not ever supporting totalitarianism. I don't care what the story or argument is. 

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