Valid Reasons To Not Get Vaccinated

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Whether you're in support of the COVID vaccine, against it,  or on the fence please use this particular thread to cite credible, evidence-based sources to share with everyone so we can engage in a discussion that revolves around LEARNING.  

I'll start:

The primary concerns I've shared with others have to do with how effective the vaccine is for those who have already been infected.  I've reviewed studies and reports in that regard.  There are medical professionals I've listened to that, in my personal opinion,  don't offer a definitive answer. 

Here are some links to 2 different, I'll start with just 2:

Cleveland Clinic Statement on Previous COVID-19 Infection Research

Reduced Risk of Reinfection with SARS-CoV-2 After COVID-19 Vaccination — Kentucky, May–June 2021

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25 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

1.There was no emotional outburst from me; maybe you need to self reflect a bit. My “points” are driven by data and rational thought.

2.You are sliding pretty steadily into the land of conspiracy theory and an old one at that. Start your reading  with Association for Molecular Pathology v. Myriad Genetics. You are barking up a long dead tree.

3.If you are hesitant and your private company has a mandate you are free to work elsewhere or if there are vaccine passports required, move elsewhere. 

 

 

 


 

 

1.There most certainly was an outburst.  You can substitute "utter bs" with "strongly disagree".  

2. The dead tree is you debating with me statistics.  You're countering things I don't disagree with you on.  How about you read the 48 laws of power and books regarding building wealth. 

I'm often left with the impression there are those who find comfort believing the wealthy and the powerful are always doing what's in our best interest.  Questioning or challenging their behaviors and motives makes things uncomfortable.  They cope with that discomfort by accusing people of being conspiracy theorists.  I'm not accusing you of anything rather speaking to the impressions I get.

Suggesting people be aware of the possibilities considering there are profit motives, patents on viruses,  and risks for corruption wherever money is involved is not a conspiracy theory.

3. Let me reflect the attitude of that statement back to you:

"If you don't want to sit in the back of the bus, walk"

"If you don't like this confederate statue, move"

"If you don't like my cigarette smoke, go to another restaurant"

"If you don't want to stand for the anthem, go to another country"

"If you don't like us talking about sex at work, get another job"

"If you don't want to take this new 9 month old drug for a disease we're still learning about that may or may not be beneficial for you and if it hurts you we aren't going to do anything for you, get another job"

 

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.

In the spirit of the OP, here a list of states with some legislative protections against mandates. Not all restrict mandates for healthcare workers. If you are looking to go to a "safe state" while waiting to decide on vax, heres a list (is from August). 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/11-states-banning-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-how-it-affects-healthcare-workers.html

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I think it ironic being a state that does not have mandates being held as "safe".

I certainly don't see it that way. We are not just people on the street. We are nurses. We should care about not getting sick/disabled/put in the ICU as much as we do our "freedoms".

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4 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

In the spirit of the OP, here a list of states with some legislative protections against mandates. Not all restrict mandates for healthcare workers. If you are looking to go to a "safe state" while waiting to decide on vax, heres a list (is from August). 

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/workforce/11-states-banning-covid-19-vaccine-mandates-how-it-affects-healthcare-workers.html

Sad part is, the whole situation is being responded to with extremes on both ends.  We have mandating the vaccine vs prohibiting a mandate.  We are becoming too reliant on force to deal with the issue.  

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6 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

I think it ironic being a state that does not have mandates being held as "safe".

I certainly don't see it that way. We are not just people on the street. We are nurses. We should care about not getting sick/disabled/put in the ICU as much as we do our "freedoms".

Of course you do. But as you've said in the past, a mandate is a choice. Those who refuse have options to CHOOSE where they can be safe from being forced into compliance.

And by the by, if I had the choice of a traditional vaccine, I'd take it. But I don't have that choice at the moment. There's more than just "vax vs refuse"in this situation.  

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
23 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

"If you don't want to sit in the back of the bus, walk"

"If you don't like this confederate statue, move"

"If you don't like my cigarette smoke, go to another restaurant"

"If you don't want to stand for the anthem, go to another country"

"If you don't like us talking about sex at work, get another job"

"If you don't want to take this new 9 month old drug for a disease we're still learning about that may or may not be beneficial for you and if it hurts you we aren't going to do anything for you, get another job"

Who is mandated to sit in the back of the bus and how is that related to public health?

What does a statue of a traitor to our country have to do with a pandemic illness and the recommended mitigation?

We have had that social discussion about the dangers of second hand smoke.  What did our society decide? Can people catch emphysema or lung cancer by exposure to the smoker?

Unless I'm mistaken, a high percentage of the people inviting the anthem kneelers to leave the country are the same people refusing to vaccinate for poorly sourced reasons. That seems pretty inconsistent. 

Talking about sex at work is identified as inappropriate professional conduct that can create a hostile work environment.  There are laws and employer policies that identify and punish such unacceptable behavior. 

Employers have had conditions for employment your entire professional life.  The reality had always been that interested potential employees would comply with the conditions or they work somewhere else.  Do you work in an "at will" employment state? If so, your employer can terminate your employment pretty much at any time for any reason that doesn't target a protected group. 

The country is in a state of emergency.  We have a patriotic civic duty to assist in the management of this pandemic.  For most Americans that means to vaccinate and use masks and distance to reduce community spread, hospitalization and death. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
15 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Of course you do. But as you've said in the past, a mandate is a choice. Those who refuse have options to CHOOSE where they can be safe from being forced into compliance.

And by the by, if I had the choice of a traditional vaccine, I'd take it. But I don't have that choice at the moment. There's more than just "vax vs refuse"in this situation.  

Safe from vaccine mandates...wow...

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51 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

Of course you do. But as you've said in the past, a mandate is a choice. Those who refuse have options to CHOOSE where they can be safe from being forced into compliance.

And by the by, if I had the choice of a traditional vaccine, I'd take it. But I don't have that choice at the moment. There's more than just "vax vs refuse"in this situation.  

But are they safe from disease/death and disability. Sometimes freedoms come with a HUGE cost.

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Specializes in Acute Dialysis.
11 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

But are they safe from disease/death and disability. Sometimes freedoms come with a HUGE cost.

That's true. Freedom comes with consequences. But so does restrictions on freedom. I personally will take freedom over safety if safety sacrifices freedom. And that is exactly what I'm doing now. If I get covid (which I haven't despite being in MANY MANY covid pts rooms, from severe cases to mild cases, for 5 hours continuously at a time during acute dialysis txs), I accept the risk. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe the risk is overblown and not as bad as reported and I'm correct in thinking I'm very low risk. Who knows? All I know is, I know what I know and have seen what I've seen. Freedom matters. Let's not forget that.

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2 minutes ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

But are they safe from disease/death and disability. Sometimes freedoms come with a HUGE cost.

The reference is often made regarding mandates for other vaccines.

It's important to distinguish between them:

-The other's aren't a few months old

-The disease is still not fully understood

-Most often, the employee was aware of the vaccine requirement before hire, not compelled to take or quit during.  No not always.  

-Alternatives have been offered (vax or mask for flu vaccine)

-titers accepted in lieu of vaccine (varicella)

 

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2 minutes ago, 10GaugeNeedles said:

That's true. Freedom comes with consequences. But so does restrictions on freedom. I personally will take freedom over safety if safety sacrifices freedom. And that is exactly what I'm doing now. If I get covid (which I haven't despite being in MANY MANY covid pts rooms, from severe cases to mild cases, for 5 hours continuously at a time during acute dialysis txs), I accept the risk. Maybe I'm just lucky. Maybe the risk is overblown and not as bad as reported and I'm correct in thinking I'm very low risk. Who knows? All I know is, I know what I know and have seen what I've seen. Freedom matters. Let's not forget that.

Freedom means nothing if we don't have our health.

Ask any COVID long hauler.

1 minute ago, jive turkey said:

The reference is often made regarding mandates for other vaccines.

It's important to distinguish between them:

-The other's aren't a few months old

-The disease is still not fully understood

-Most often, the employee was aware of the vaccine requirement before hire, not compelled to take or quit during.  No not always.  

-Alternatives have been offered (vax or mask for flu vaccine)

-titers accepted in lieu of vaccine (varicella)

 

But a huge number of people refusing to vax are also refusing masks. They sure are vocal and loud about it.

What to do about them?

I am vaxxed since last January. Yet I wore a mask all through Summer, even when others were not.

So I am not a vaxed person running around carelessly spreading COVID wherever I go!

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1 minute ago, SmilingBluEyes said:

Freedom means nothing if we don't have our health.

Ask any COVID long hauler.

Freedom means everything. Ask any veteran. 

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