Vaccine Nation

luvschoolnursing, LPN · Jul 30, 2008

Wow. Haven't seen the movie, only the trailer on youtube. Would like to see the whole movie. I do have my own children vaccinated and encourage the parents of my students to do the same. I believe many, many lives have been save by preventing the illnesses the vaccines protect against. I haven't yet seen any convincing evidence to the contrary.

rph3664 · Jul 30, 2008

Alan Yurko's child died of shaken baby syndrome, and he has a criminal record longer than your arm. Yes, he's handsome and soft spoken. So what. Jeffrey Dahmer was too.

That he's being treated as a poster boy for this movie in itself means I will not see it.

And Gary Null needs to take the colander off his head.

OTOH, I'm grateful we have free speech in this country. The only thing I agreed with was the woman who said vaccines are not risk free. No medical treatment is.

Pediatric Critical Care Columnist · Jul 30, 2008

I strongly believe in immunizing our children and ourselves. As a PICU nurse, I've seen too many inadequately immunized infants try to die dozens of times a day from pertussis they've picked up from an adult whose immunity has waned. I've seen children lose limbs or lives to meningococcemia. I've nursed an infant who died from chicken pox. I have a friend who had polio as a child that caused her to have weakness on her right side, who now has post-polio syndrome and has a re-emergence of symptoms five decades later. The only time I saw a haemophilus B infection it was in child who had not been immunized; the child is now deaf. But I've never seen diphtheria or tetorifice except on paper. Recently I've been reading through death certificates from the 19th century while researching my family history. What I've read there is enough to make me cry... entire generations of families dead from measles or pertussis or typhoid or diphtheria or cholera. In some particularly bad months the list might read:

"~Patrick Brown, son of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 5 months, November 18, 1887 of whooping cough.

~Catherine Brown, daughter of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 1 years 8 months, November 20, 1887 of whooping cough.

~James Brown, son of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 3 years 1 month, November 24, 1887 of whooping cough.

~Margaret Brown, daughter of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 4 years 5 months, November 30, 1887 of whooping cough."

Interspersed would be names of other small children in the village who died in between. A community might lose a dozen or more children to a single outbreak. When was the last time such an event occurred in Canada or the US?

There have been numerous credible studies that have disproven the theory that vaccines cause autism. But there are those who say, "Don't confuse me with facts, because I KNOW." Oh, and the last time I recall there has never been an association made between broken ribs, retinal hemorrhages and significant shear injuries in the brain and vaccines of any sort. Give me a break!

rph3664 · Jul 30, 2008

I live in an area with a sizable Amish population; most of them are not vaccinated, and I have seen some of those diseases at my hospital.

So much unnecessary suffering.

This is not the same as a person who cannot be vaccinated because of a known allergy or other disorder. And I certainly have no problem with spreading out the schedule, or even skipping some vaccines that are of dubious efficacy or need.

Edit: Janfrn, aren't you the nurse with an autistic son who's about 30 years old?

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Aug 5, 2008

I strongly believe in immunizing our children and ourselves. As a PICU nurse, I've seen too many inadequately immunized infants try to die dozens of times a day from pertussis they've picked up from an adult whose immunity has waned. I've seen children lose limbs or lives to meningococcemia. I've nursed an infant who died from chicken pox. I have a friend who had polio as a child that caused her to have weakness on her right side, who now has post-polio syndrome and has a re-emergence of symptoms five decades later. The only time I saw a haemophilus B infection it was in child who had not been immunized; the child is now deaf. But I've never seen diphtheria or tetorifice except on paper. Recently I've been reading through death certificates from the 19th century while researching my family history. What I've read there is enough to make me cry... entire generations of families dead from measles or pertussis or typhoid or diphtheria or cholera. In some particularly bad months the list might read:
"~Patrick Brown, son of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 5 months, November 18, 1887 of whooping cough.
~Catherine Brown, daughter of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 1 years 8 months, November 20, 1887 of whooping cough.
~James Brown, son of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 3 years 1 month, November 24, 1887 of whooping cough.
~Margaret Brown, daughter of William Brown and Caroline Smith, age 4 years 5 months, November 30, 1887 of whooping cough."
Interspersed would be names of other small children in the village who died in between. A community might lose a dozen or more children to a single outbreak. When was the last time such an event occurred in Canada or the US?
There have been numerous credible studies that have disproven the theory that vaccines cause autism. But there are those who say, "Don't confuse me with facts, because I KNOW." Oh, and the last time I recall there has never been an association made between broken ribs, retinal hemorrhages and significant shear injuries in the brain and vaccines of any sort. Give me a break!

Thank you so much for writing that! I wish people now days realized that we are dealing with horrible deadly diseases!! They just don't seem to get it. We have to hand out VIS forms with every vaccine we give, but I wish those forms had pictures! Or maybe give a video to every new mother that shows the devastating effects of these vaccine preventable diseases!!! Ugh I get so touchy about this subject.

scribblerpnp · Aug 19, 2008

Yay! Now I have the outlash of this to look forward too! As if the MMR/Autism "study" that came out in 1999 wasn't enough trouble.

Ugh.

No vaccines aren't 100% risk free. But neither is Amoxil or Omnicef, and parents practically BEG for these when their kid has a runny nose.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 5, 2008

i just checked out the site for the first time...

Why do people not get their info straight before posting such garbage on the internet! For one thing, Thimersol has been out of vaccines for a long time now!! Only the flu vaccine contains it now and it just just a trace amount!!! errrrrg! This is why there are outbreaks of these diseases because people post this junk on the internet.

Duckyaryj · Sep 11, 2008

We just had a case of pertussis d/t non-vaccination. The reasoning for non-vaccination was that an older child had autism (non-vaccinated also) and the mother did not want to risk her other child (kinda odd sense of theory but to each her own). Now she's rushing to get the vaccines.

diosa78 · Sep 17, 2008

I am still concerned that we are vaccinating our children too early. Why does a newborn need a Hep B vaccine? Neither I nor any of my family or friends had this vaccine until we were in our 20s and none of us have Hep B. The risk of transmission is so low that I think it is unnecessary.

Yes, we should vaccinate for MMR, pertussis, tetorifice, diptheria etc, but it seems like we are vaccinating too young. In the 70s, children were not vaccinated as early as they are today. Maybe there is a genetic link, but maybe we aren't letting children's immune systems develop long enough to tolerate the vaccinations. Does anyone have any reason why we should be vaccinating for Hep B at birth?

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 17, 2008

I am still concerned that we are vaccinating our children too early. Why does a newborn need a Hep B vaccine? Neither I nor any of my family or friends had this vaccine until we were in our 20s and none of us have Hep B. The risk of transmission is so low that I think it is unnecessary.
Yes, we should vaccinate for MMR, pertussis, tetorifice, diptheria etc, but it seems like we are vaccinating too young. In the 70s, children were not vaccinated as early as they are today. Maybe there is a genetic link, but maybe we aren't letting children's immune systems develop long enough to tolerate the vaccinations. Does anyone have any reason why we should be vaccinating for Hep B at birth?

well how about this... lets wait until all of our kids are 4, 5, 6 or 7 to give them all their vaccines so we can make sure it is more traumatic and you can bet they will remember those!

Why not vaccinate Hep B at birth? Whats it hurting? The sooner we get them vaccinated the sooner they are protected. And the best part of all, the younger they are, the less they remember!!

It irks me to have these parents "wait until hes older" bring in a 4 year old who need to start school and has never had an immunization. Understandably the kid is frightened and its a horrible experience for everyone involved, and guess what... he has to come back every 6-8 weeks now so get the rest of his series. Bet he wont like coming to the Dr for awhile now...

Go to the CDC website and look it up. Hep B among chlidren and adolescents has dropped 95% since it became a routine immunization. That should be enough. Who wants their kid to get Hep B? I sure don't.

Directly from CDC.gov "

Infants and children who become infected with hepatitis B virus are at highest risk of developing lifelong infection, which often leads to death from liver disease (cirrhosis) and liver cancer. Approximately 25 percent of children who become infected with life-long hepatitis B virus would be expected to die of related liver disease as adults.

CDC estimates that one-third of the life-long hepatitis B virus infections in the United States resulted from infections occurring in infants and young children. About 16,000 - 20,000 hepatitis B antigen infected women give birth each year in the United States. It is estimated that 12,000 children born to hepatitis B virus infected mothers were infected each year before implementation of infant immunization programs. In addition, approximately 33,000 children (10 years of age and younger) of mothers who are not infected with hepatitis B virus were infected each year before routine recommendation of childhood hepatitis B vaccination."

So again I say, why not? Any real scientific logical reason not to vaccinate?? Hep B is one of the safest vaccines out there. Or do you just not want your baby to cry for one second while he/she gets a little shot?

diosa78 · Sep 17, 2008

Ok, I'm going to play devil's advocate here. There is evidence that a newborn's immune system is immature and strikingly different from that of an older child or adult especially in regards to antigen presentation response. Here in the US, Hep B infects mainly IV drug users, prostitutes, and heterosexuals who have unprotected sex with multiple partners. So, what is the likelihood of a baby or young child contracting Hep B? Just because the CDC recommends one side today, that doesn't mean it won't change tomorrow. Why don't we be a little more conservative and let their immune systems develop a little bit more BEFORE giving the vaccination. Again, there is evidence on both sides of the table and I think our patients deserve to hear the pros and cons as well as the likelihood of actually contracting Hep B. Furthermore, there is evidence that there is a greater likelihood of a child having adverse effects to the vaccination than there is to actually contracting the disease (VAERS).

I just think that we should be giving our patients as much information as possible so they can make an informed decision.