Vaccine Nation

Jolie, BSN · Sep 18, 2008

Furthermore, there is evidence that there is a greater likelihood of a child having adverse effects to the vaccination than there is to actually contracting the disease (VAERS).

Can you cite a source that shows that the likelihood of adverse effects of the Hep. B vaccine exceeds the likelihood of contracting the disease?

I understand that informed parents may wish to alter the recommended vaccine schedule, and I support their decision to do so. But I've given hundreds of Hep. B vaccines to newborns (and some to adults), and have never seen or had a reaction reported. In my experience it has been universally well-tolerated, so I question this information.

diosa78 · Sep 18, 2008

Hi, yes, you can look it under the following link:

http://vaers.hhs.gov/scripts/data.cfm

You will see data of reactions for several years. You can also look at testimony of reactions made before the immunization advisory committee in 1999 by Michael Belkin Director of the Hep B Vaccine Project of the Nat'l Vaccine Information Center and "in 1996 there were more than three times as many reported serious adverse reactions as reported cases of the disease in the 0 to 14 age group.

Of the total 2424 adverse event reports made between 1990 and October 1998 in children under age 14 who received hepatitis B vaccine, there were 1209 serious events and 73 deaths. Thus, one half of the reports for children under age 14 who received only hepatitis B vaccine were for serious events that required an emergency visit, hospitalization, or caused life-threatening health problems for permanent disabilities. A benefit/risk analysis of the hepatitis B vaccine for the average infant in America, not born to infected parents, must conclude that the VAERS date on adverse reactions shows the real-world risk of a newborn infant dying or being injured by the hepatitis B vaccine is a greater threat than the remote chance of contracting the primarily blood-transmitted disease."

It's a good reason for us to take a step back and think "what are the real chances of a baby being infected unless the baby is born to an infected mother?" Furthermore, the CDC does not have infants listed as "at risk" for contracting Hepatitis B. It is not a childhood disease like pertussis.

Statistics for actual Hep B rates for children are hypothetical and not based on actual cases.

There is also information from France that they were sued for overstating the benefits and understating the risks that they no longer recommend the vaccine.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 18, 2008

Hi, yes, you can look it under the following link:
http://vaers.hhs.gov/scripts/data.cfm
You will see data of reactions for several years. You can also look at testimony of reactions made before the immunization advisory committee in 1999 by Michael Belkin Director of the Hep B Vaccine Project of the Nat'l Vaccine Information Center and "in 1996 there were more than three times as many reported serious adverse reactions as reported cases of the disease in the 0 to 14 age group.
Of the total 2424 adverse event reports made between 1990 and October 1998 in children under age 14 who received hepatitis B vaccine, there were 1209 serious events and 73 deaths. Thus, one half of the reports for children under age 14 who received only hepatitis B vaccine were for serious events that required an emergency visit, hospitalization, or caused life-threatening health problems for permanent disabilities. A benefit/risk analysis of the hepatitis B vaccine for the average infant in America, not born to infected parents, must conclude that the VAERS date on adverse reactions shows the real-world risk of a newborn infant dying or being injured by the hepatitis B vaccine is a greater threat than the remote chance of contracting the primarily blood-transmitted disease."
It's a good reason for us to take a step back and think "what are the real chances of a baby being infected unless the baby is born to an infected mother?" Furthermore, the CDC does not have infants listed as "at risk" for contracting Hepatitis B. It is not a childhood disease like pertussis.
Statistics for actual Hep B rates for children are hypothetical and not based on actual cases.
There is also information from France that they were sued for overstating the benefits and understating the risks that they no longer recommend the vaccine.

Have you ever sat and read these VAERS ? If you have you will know that just because it is on VAERS doesnt mean it is actually vaccine related. If a child recieves and vaccine and a few days later contracts something totally different, that has to be listed. Just because it happened AFTER the vaccine.

Personally, I have also vaccinated hundreds of kids with Hep B and have never once had a patient even have a local reaction to it. So 73 deaths from Hep B?? Thats quite a number. I will do some researching on my own. I do believe quoting 1998 (10 whole years ago) stats is a bit outdated. Pull up 2008 VAERS and see.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 18, 2008

this explains what i was mentioning about vaers in my previous post, and this is taken directly from the official vaers website.

vaers data contains coincidental events and those truly caused by vaccines.

over ten million vaccinations per year are given to children less than one year old, usually between 2 months and 6 months of age. at this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome (sids). some infants will by coincidence experience such an event shortly after a vaccination.
these coincidences make it difficult to know whether a particular adverse event resulted from a concurrent condition or from a vaccination. therefore, doctors and other vaccine providers are encouraged to report all adverse events following vaccinations, whether or not they believe that the vaccination was the cause.

vaers data have a number of limitations you should remember:

vaers data are derived from a passive surveillance system and represent unverified reports of health events, both minor and serious, that occur after vaccination.
in certain cases vaers requests additional information from reporters, healthcare providers and other parties. the status, event description and medical codes associated with a report are subject to change upon receipt of such additional information.
when multiple reports of a single case or event are received, only the first report received is included in the publicly accessible dataset. subsequent reports may contain additional or conflicting data, and there is no assurance that the data provided in the public dataset is the most accurate or current available.
such data are subject to limitations of under-reporting, simultaneous administration of multiple vaccine antigens (making it difficult to know to which of the vaccines, if any, the event might be attributed), reporting bias, and lack of incidence rates in unvaccinated comparison groups.
while some events reported to vaers are truly caused by vaccines, others may be related to an underlying disease or condition, to medications being taken concurrently, or may occur by chance.
vaers occasionally receives case reports from us manufacturers that were reported to their foreign subsidiaries. under fda regulations, if a manufacturer is notified of a foreign case report that describes an event that is both serious and unexpected (in other words, it does not appear in the product labeling), they are required to submit it to vaers. it is important to realize that these case reports are of variable data quality and completeness, due to the many differences in country reporting practices and surveillance system quality. for this reason they are provided as separate files.
in some media reports and on some web sites on the internet, vaers reports are presented as verified cases of vaccine deaths and injuries. statements such as these misrepresent the nature of the vaers surveillance system.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 18, 2008

This is an example of the 75 ever reported deaths after a Hep B vaccine... was the vaccine the cause of his death? I think not...

VAERS ID25520 Vaccination Date:1988-02-03Age71.0 Onset Date:1990-02-17 Days later: 745SexM Submitted:0000-00-00State Entered:1990-07-18Life Threatening Illness? NoDied? Yes (date died: 1990-02-17)Disability? NoRecovered? NoER or Doctor Visit? NoHospitalized? NoCurrent Illness: Presenile dementia; Diabetes mellitusDiagnostic Lab Data: Previous Vaccinations: Other Medications: Tolbutamide, Vitamin B, Vitamin CPreexisting Conditions: Renal dialysis; Renal failureVaccinationManufacturerLotDoseRouteSiteHEPMSD IM Administered by: PVT Purchased by: UNKSymptoms: SEPSIS 71 yr old male w/presenile dementia, diabetes mellitus, & renal failure received Hepatitis B vaccine, recombinant, 40 mcg, IM. Dialysis shunt became infected Dx w/sepsis therapy initiated w/flucloxacillin, however pt died that day.

diosa78 · Sep 18, 2008

The whole point I am trying to make is that we DO NOT know. There is congressional testimony that the risk outweighs the benefit...this is why it is not recommended in Europe.

So, my question to you again is, WHAT ARE THE REAL CHANCES OF A CHILD CONTACTING HEP B? The statistics clearly show that it is a 1/1000 of a percent .... it is bloodborne and unlikely to be transmitted unless the mother is infected.

And just to let you know, I received the vaccination at the age of 29 and I HAD a reaction, so I just cannot understand giving something to a baby that is unlikely to contract the disease.

Vaccination can be important and life-saving if there is an epidemic raging (show me where there is a Hep B epidemic because there is NOT).

And yes, I am aware of how to use the VAERS as I am well-connected to the CDC. Take 1996. There were 54 cases of Hep B reported to the CDC in the 0-1 age group. There were 3.9 million live births. The observed incidence of this disease is just 0.001% in that age group. In VAERS, there were 1080 total reports of adverse reactions with this vaccine in that age group with 47 reported deaths (please note that autopsies on many of these showed brain inflammation/swelling and SIDS does NOT present with this sign). So total VARES Hep B reports for this age group outnumber reported cases 20 to 1.

Again, Hep B is not like pertussis, measles, etc. So, WHY are we continuing to do something where the risk outweighs the benefit.

Our patients deserve to be informed and not influenced to make an informed decision, not just to be told, well the CDC recommends it when infants are NOT listed as an AT-RISK population group.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Sep 18, 2008

I don't live or practice nursing in Europe, and until I see some documented PROOF that it is harming our children I will continue to follow the CDC guidelines of immunizing at birth.

By the way, I'm not trying to slam you or anything. I know everyone has their own beliefs and reasons for and against things, as do I. Vaccines just happen to be a passion of mine, and I have enjoyed debating on this site and others and actually doing some research and all. I just wanted you to know I am not trying to be disrespectful.

spacey · Sep 7, 2009

I'll have to double check....but the last time I looked, our HepB vax (or something in the 2 month series) does still have Thimersol.

PediMommy · Oct 4, 2009

Thank you for this topic! I also am a RN in a pedi clinic and have been for over 6 years. These last 3 years so many parents are refusing to vaccinate or splitting up vaccines. Most of the information they have is false so it is our duty to educate them with the right information.

I have seen a 3 week old baby with pertussis and I vowed that my daugther would never be that baby. She is fully vaccinated. Even Hep B @ birth.

I hate the late vaccinators. Either splitting up vaccines on older kids or having to get caught up at the last minute is very traumatic. Then the parents act like we hurt them. Wow!

Hep B I don't believe contains thimersol. I have a book which has every ingredient in every vaccine at work and I will double check. I know the IPV multi-dose vial and the flu vaccine mulit-dose vial do contain trace amounts.