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Vaccine controversy

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by degfnp degfnp (New Member) New Member

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You are reading page 3 of Vaccine controversy. If you want to start from the beginning Go to First Page.

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I ask them why they think the government wants a population full of persons with autism, MS, diabetes, cancer, etc. (not that I'm judging any of them). But why does the government want a population full of sick and disabled people?

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Luchador has 5 years experience as a CNA, EMT-B.

96 Likes; 1,226 Visitors; 167 Posts

I ask them why they think the government wants a population full of persons with autism, MS, diabetes, cancer, etc. (not that I'm judging any of them). But why does the government want a population full of sick and disabled people?

[sarcasm font] Let's bring back Polio! [sarcasm font]

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ClaraRedheart has 4 years experience as a BSN, RN and works as a Med-Surg Tele Nurse.

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As a mom myself, and a nurse... I've admittedly been late on some of my son's and daughters vaccinations. I think that reminders via text would be awesome! Or maybe at the office, they could set your next appointment when your kids next vaccination is due when you check out.

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cayenne06 has 10+ years experience and works as a CNM.

12 Likes; 17,699 Visitors; 1,369 Posts

The majority of these people have very little knowledge and a lot of confirmation bias and regardless of what you present to them they will only hear what they want to. The only response we have at this level is to never let their unsubstantiated pseudoscience go unchallenged. For every internet post there should be a HCP there reminding other readers of the total junk that is being displayed. We might not be able to change their minds but we may change the minds of those not fully indoctrinated.

YES. This. Anything less is patronizing. They deserve to know the real information, they deserve our expert opinions. It is easy to walk away from the talk- nonvaxxers are on high alert to defend their choice. But it is our job to give them the info, and we have to do it from a genuine place of caring and compassion. Dont be a jerk. We all have irrational stupid beliefs; the nonvaxxing one just happens to be particularly dangerous.

Dont worry about changing their mind. Focus on building trust and cross your fingers that you planted a seed.

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560 Likes; 3 Followers; 25,914 Visitors; 5,221 Posts

Dont be a jerk. We all have irrational stupid beliefs;

Like the one that many TRULY believe, that if you say "It's quiet today" on your shift, things will start to go crazy on the unit/ER? ;)

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573 Visitors; 37 Posts

As a nurse practitioner for over a decade and a relatively new mom, I have very strong opinions about vaccinations. I have unfortunately seen many vaccine preventable illnesses such as measles, mumps, varicella, rotavirus, HIB and pertussis to name a few. It infuriates me when I hear that people choose not to vaccinate for silly and unfounded reasons.

What are some successful methods you have used to educate patients and parents on the benefits of vaccinating according to the schedule???

Thank you!

My grandparent's generation never questioned their physician. Respectfully, I think your question about "successful methods" is a little like putting the cart in front of the horse. The question you should be asking is why there is a trust issue? Secondly, there are no "successful methods" of educating patients when logic and emotion are in conflict.

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573 Visitors; 37 Posts

The majority of these people have very little knowledge and a lot of confirmation bias

Gross generalization! The question isn't what "these people" believe, but why.....and the rabbit hole that created the why? The one thing in common I find of those who are vaccination zealots is that they appears at least from their tone to not have a lot of love in their heart's for those whose lives are in their hands. I encourage you to change my mind.......

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BostonFNP works as a Primary Care NP.

18 Likes; 1 Follower; 3 Articles; 54,173 Visitors; 5,223 Posts

Gross generalization! The question isn't what "these people" believe, but why.....and the rabbit hole that created the why? The one thing in common I find of those who are vaccination zealots is that they appears at least from their tone to not have a lot of love in their heart's for those whose lives are in their hands. I encourage you to change my mind.......

Obviously I am not able to speak to every individual on the internet, and we all know that individual variability is great. As I have said previously, in clinical practice I approach vaccines from a different angle (I am dealing with individuals in that setting). On the internets, I need to talk to a population. So that being said, moving on.

Want me to cite studies that show a inverse correlation between conspiracy theory or vaccine ignorance and vaccination status? This has been shown in the literature: those that oppose vaccines are more likely to believe in other conspiracy theories and are less likely to be able to answer basic questions about vaccines.

The truth is that most modern anti-vaccine advocates are heavily influenced by confirmation bias, which is why the movement has bloomed as the internet has: a ready source of confirmation bias and pseudoscience. By that very nature it is difficult to persuade these individuals because their arguments are not based in fact, or data, or expertise. This is the offspring of "alternative facts" (to steal a political term): you can not win an argument with fact because the opposition has made up it's own "facts" and considers them equal to the real facts.

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djmatte has 7 years experience as a ADN, MSN, RN, NP and works as a Family Nurse Practitioner.

63 Likes; 2 Followers; 6,386 Visitors; 657 Posts

My grandparent's generation never questioned their physician. Respectfully, I think your question about "successful methods" is a little like putting the cart in front of the horse. The question you should be asking is why there is a trust issue? Secondly, there are no "successful methods" of educating patients when logic and emotion are in conflict.

There are successful methods when pandemics hit. Emotion has a funny way of swinging back when everyone around you is suddenly falling victim to vaccine preventable diseases. Maybe we should just pull them from the market, let millions die or experience life long debilitating diseases and just offer crow when the world comes crawling back.

I'm a bigger fan of simply choosing not to treat people who aren't willing to adhere to my regimens. Can't get a vaccine? Then you clearly don't need my services. Don't want to adhere to my diabetes regimen? I'm sure there's a million other pcps who are willing to take your money to tell you the negative effects of diabetes just to watch toy ignore all recommendations. Maybe if more pcps put their foot down and as options for healthcare dwindled, more lightbulbs will turn on.

Edited by djmatte

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BostonFNP works as a Primary Care NP.

18 Likes; 1 Follower; 3 Articles; 54,173 Visitors; 5,223 Posts

But anti-vaxxer's really don't care about your evidence pyramid.

QFE.

Thank you for supporting exactly what I said above, well except for the fact there is no "your evidence pyramid" there is only a single evidence pyramid that exists for everyone.

But instinctually they understand the monetary bias big-pharma has on study outcomes. You can talk until you are blue, but any study you cite has a big-pharma bias. It's amazing you don't understand that!!

There are thousands of studies published in peer-reviewed publications every year that have zero "big-pharma bias" as they exist entirely outside of the scope of pharma. It's amazing you don't understand that!!

But if you want to go there here's a study showing how implausible and exaggerated the evidence is that hospitals use to justify mandated influenza vaccinations for healthcare workers. FYI-There are an increasing amount of studies coming out like this one that is bias-free of the big-pharma and it's amazing how there conclusions are so different than the studies I am sure you will reply with. So anyone out there who hasn't fully yet been indoctrinated by these vaccination zealots or who is a vaccination agnostic, give this study a good read. Our healthcare leaders have misled us. The question is why?

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0163586#authcontrib

First off, if you want to use this study as your example, then shouldn't you apply the "bias" argument you made just above it? Where is the bias in this study?

GDS, MG, CL and AY have been engaged (with or without remuneration) to provide expert testimony during legal challenges against enforced healthcare workers influenza vaccination policies in Canada.

 

Conceptualization: GDS DMS.

Data curation: GDS DMS.

Formal analysis: GDS DMS.

Funding acquisition: GDS.

Investigation: GDS DMS.

Methodology: GDS DMS.

Project administration: GDS DMS.

Resources: GDS DMS.

Supervision: GDS DMS.

Validation: GDS DMS BJW MG CL AY DP MK ML PC FC.

Visualization: GDS DMS.

Writing - original draft: GDS DMS.

Writing - review & editing: GDS DMS BJW MG CL AY DP MK ML PC FC.

Second, most anti-vaxxers are very caught up on the concern of "data manipulation" in studies as evidence of author/backer bias. This study is entirely data manipulation.

That being said, I think the study itself has weight. It presents a critical evaluation of the extant data, which is the beauty of science, and provides more insight to further examine the issue moving forward.

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Spadeforce has 1 years experience.

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If they get sick with xyz disease after refusing vaccine insurance should be able to refuse payment and it comes out of pocket if they get the disease.

They should be held liable for getting those who cannot get the vaccine sick *immunocompromised sick) if it can be traced back to them.

So they still have the freedom to refuse, this is America, but they pay a steep price if they decide to do the dumb and not take it.

Not sure why people choose to flip over vaccines when it comes to giant conspiracies. What exactly does the GOVT have to gain? I guess big pharma profiting off of the vaccine but they aren't even that expensive.

The worst part is there was a post in general nursing where nurses still thought the flu vaccine got them sick. How intelligent is our average nursing person on SDN? Do they even understand immunity?

lol these people work in hospitals

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traumaRUs has 25 years experience as a MSN, APRN and works as a Asst Community Manager @ allnurses.

465 Likes; 14 Followers; 127 Articles; 184,819 Visitors; 20,483 Posts

Great and lively discussion. Please keep on topic! Thanks

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