Vaccination Mandating

Nurses COVID

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I'm in NY. Wonder how other NURSES are feeling about mandatory COVID vaccination?

Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.
14 hours ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Yes.

Mandates work to increase vaccination rates.  The vaccines are safe and more effective than treatments after infection in reducing serious illness, hospitalization or death from covid.  That is the current public health guidance.  

OK see that proves my point. People like you who lack the sophistication to interpret data should not be mandating vaccines because you don't understand the risk profiles of the vaccines. If you would have watched the video  or read the publication I posted earlier you would have seen that Moderna has a higher risk of myocarditis and even more so in men under 40 compared to covid19 infection. Pfizer on the other hand has a better safety profile and has less incidents of myocarditis. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
2 hours ago, Sciencedude1 said:

OK see that proves my point. People like you who lack the sophistication to interpret data should not be mandating vaccines because you don't understand the risk profiles of the vaccines. If you would have watched the video  or read the publication I posted earlier you would have seen that Moderna has a higher risk of myocarditis and even more so in men under 40 compared to covid19 infection. Pfizer on the other hand has a better safety profile and has less incidents of myocarditis. 

People like you like to discourage vaccination by elevating fears and concerns.  If you weren't distrustful of the scientific institutions and public health expert analysis wouldn't be sharing your fears across digital platforms in the midst of a pandemic that continues to harm and kill people. Why don't you trust the people in charge of this?

It's a good thing that you aren't in charge of pandemic response in the USA, you've gotten yourself all worked up and are making counter productive suggestions. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-covid-19-shot-more-likely-cause-heart-inflammation-than-pfizers-study-2021-12-17/

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, Sciencedude1 said:

OK so where is the reference so all of us on AN can see what you're talking about? I love how you make claims but are very scant on references. I never said I was OK with unvaccinated workers. I think we should promote the vaccine through education and let doctors and patients decide what is best for the patient. It's really not that complicated. You know we have been taking this approach for any procedure/medication because it's the safest and most ethical approach. That doesn't seem to matter anymore to a lot of posters on this thread. States that try to hurt the wallets of firemen, police officers, teachers,  nurses, doctors, and workers of all kind are only going to experience a mass exodus of said workers because people got to eat. You can't force poverty on individuals because you don't agree with them because..you know.. that is unethical.  Also what is that going to do to the shortage of nurses and doctors in states mandating the vaccines? I imagine it's going to make the shortage worse. So basic economic states when supplies are low and demand is high the cost of having a nurse will increase. So those states are going to have to pay higher fee's for vaccinated travel nurses to go to those states. Then what happens to the price of healthcare in states having to pay higher traveler fees? Its going to become more expensive and it will effect people of lower socio economic status regardless of vaccination status. 

Oh well...all of a sudden the for profit American health system is in need of more of those health professionals that they have called and treated as "replaceable" for decades.  Those money generating health facilities have begun to realize that having a crap ton of provider level professionals with billable coding at their disposal can't keep the beds open when the nurses walk away.  I wonder if you are under some impression that more nurses have left their positions in protest of vaccine than in protest of the horrible working conditions of a pandemic.

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Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.
1 hour ago, toomuchbaloney said:

People like you like to discourage vaccination by elevating fears and concerns.  If you weren't distrustful of the scientific institutions and public health expert analysis wouldn't be sharing your fears across digital platforms in the midst of a pandemic that continues to harm and kill people. Why don't you trust the people in charge of this?

It's a good thing that you aren't in charge of pandemic response in the USA, you've gotten yourself all worked up and are making counter productive suggestions. 

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/moderna-covid-19-shot-more-likely-cause-heart-inflammation-than-pfizers-study-2021-12-17/

 That article you referenced states that Moderna is more likely to cause inflammation than Pfizer which agrees with the article I posted earlier. However the article I posted earlier also compares myocarditis rates between covid19 infections, Pfizer, and Moderna and states that Moderna has higher rates of myocarditis compared to Pfizer and covid19 infection. You think that me referencing publications is discouraging people to get vaccinated and you call that promoting vaccine hesitancy. I call it evidence based practice where doctors utilize scientific publications to guide the decision they make with their patients. Why not give the safest vaccine?  What you are promoting by discouraging discussion of data is data hesitancy. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

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Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.

Heres a look at Omicron  variant deaths.

 

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3 hours ago, Sciencedude1 said:

People like you who lack the sophistication to interpret data should not be mandating vaccines because you don't understand the risk profiles of the vaccines. If you would have watched the video  or read the publication I posted earlier you would have seen that Moderna has a higher risk of myocarditis and even more so in men under 40 compared to covid19 infection.

Irony intended?  I am thinking not, but I got a bit of a chuckle.  

57 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

People like you like to discourage vaccination by elevating fears and concerns.  If you weren't distrustful of the scientific institutions and public health expert analysis wouldn't be sharing your fears across digital platforms in the midst of a pandemic that continues to harm and kill people. Why don't you trust the people in charge of this?

While it is good to discredit disinformation, it is also a balancing act.  Engaging every single bit of nonsense provides a platform to repeat the false claims.  Look back at the last page or two.  Seeing all those mentions about vaccine related myocarditis is is starting to get me a bit worried.   Maybe I should have skipped the vaccine and moved to sciencedude's state where they are well staffed because they don't require vaccines.

"Not only is misinformation increasing online, but attempting to correct it politely on Twitter can have negative consequences, leading to even less-accurate tweets and more toxicity from the people being corrected, according to a new study co-authored by a group of MIT scholars."

Apparently, we need to be wary of the elusive familiarity backfire effect.

I really don't know the right balance.  Honestly, this site has given me some really good insight into the disinformation playbook, particularly when it is used by those claiming credentials.

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Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.
10 minutes ago, hherrn said:

Irony intended?  I am thinking not, but I got a bit of a chuckle.  

While it is good to discredit disinformation, it is also a balancing act.  Engaging every single bit of nonsense provides a platform to repeat the false claims.  Look back at the last page or two.  Seeing all those mentions about vaccine related myocarditis is is starting to get me a bit worried.   Maybe I should have skipped the vaccine and moved to sciencedude's state where they are well staffed because they don't require vaccines.

"Not only is misinformation increasing online, but attempting to correct it politely on Twitter can have negative consequences, leading to even less-accurate tweets and more toxicity from the people being corrected, according to a new study co-authored by a group of MIT scholars."

Apparently, we need to be wary of the elusive familiarity backfire effect.

I really don't know the right balance.  Honestly, this site has given me some really good insight into the disinformation playbook, particularly when it is used by those claiming credentials.

So what exactly is misinformation? Are you talking about the scientific publications that I referenced. See let me educate you about something called references. I was a science teacher you know. When you reference something you are given credit to someone else for the work that they did. So when you say that myocarditis related to vaccines is misinformation/disinformation you are actually saying that the scientist are spreading misinformation. Let's be honest the publications are not misinformation but information that is inconvenient to your ideology. 

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
4 hours ago, Sciencedude1 said:

 That article you referenced states that Moderna is more likely to cause inflammation than Pfizer which agrees with the article I posted earlier. However the article I posted earlier also compares myocarditis rates between covid19 infections, Pfizer, and Moderna and states that Moderna has higher rates of myocarditis compared to Pfizer and covid19 infection. You think that me referencing publications is discouraging people to get vaccinated and you call that promoting vaccine hesitancy. I call it evidence based practice where doctors utilize scientific publications to guide the decision they make with their patients. Why not give the safest vaccine?  What you are promoting by discouraging discussion of data is data hesitancy. 

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-021-01630-0

Gosh...you missed the important caveat that the myocarditis that you believe is reason to avoid vaccination is mild and treatable and vaccination is less risky than gambling with the virus. Why not follow the public health guidelines and stop trying to scare people away from vaccines during a pandemic?

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Specializes in NICU, PICU, Transport, L&D, Hospice.
3 hours ago, Sciencedude1 said:

So what exactly is misinformation? Are you talking about the scientific publications that I referenced. See let me educate you about something called references. I was a science teacher you know. When you reference something you are given credit to someone else for the work that they did. So when you say that myocarditis related to vaccines is misinformation/disinformation you are actually saying that the scientist are spreading misinformation. Let's be honest the publications are not misinformation but information that is inconvenient to your ideology. 

No we don't know that you were a science teacher at some earlier point in your life.  We only know that you are persistent in posting commentary which seems intended to discourage vaccination. Myocarditis following vaccination is typically mild and treatable and is not a reason to avoid vaccination.   

 

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Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.
30 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Gosh...you missed the important caveat that the myocarditis that you believe is reason to avoid vaccination is mild and treatable and vaccination is less risky than gambling with the virus. Why not follow the public health guidelines and stop trying to scare people away from vaccines during a pandemic?

Gosh... point to one post where I said people should not get vaccinated. All I have said is that people should have the autonomy to decide after a risk benefit analysis discussion with their doctor. 

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Specializes in CRNA, Finally retired.

You are encouraging people to look for a reason not to get vaccinated.  With very rare exception, there is NO ONE that should not be vaccinated.  They are holding the hospitals hostage.  You do understand the concept of peeing in the pool?:)

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Specializes in Critical Thinking-Critical Care.
1 hour ago, subee said:

You are encouraging people to look for a reason not to get vaccinated.  With very rare exception, there is NO ONE that should not be vaccinated.  They are holding the hospitals hostage.  You do understand the concept of peeing in the pool?:)

Im empowering people to have data to make their own decisions. Anyway's I am retiring from this thread. I would like to leave with a good note though which I think everyone can appreciate. 

Covid Updates: South Africa Says Its Omicron Wave Has Passed With No Big Spike in Deaths

The announcement offers cautious hope to other countries grappling with the fast-spreading variant. The U.S. hits yet another record for new daily virus cases.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12/30/world/omicron-covid-vaccine-tests

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