Using Your Nursing Credentials to Validate Anti-Vaxxer Theories

[Helen Crump]

As nurses we are supposed to understand and follow science. Yet all over the country nurses are using their background to validate crackpot theories about Covid and the vaccine. Should there be consequences for leading an effort to hurt the public health? After all, it violates basic nursing ethics in particular, do no harm. Should boards of nurses sanction these people or should the ANA or other associations put out a statement saying these folk don't represent us?

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

2 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

Science is in a constant process of re-evaluation. 

Can you cite an example of a conspiracy theory that science was wrong about?

What do you think the science of the day was when it said the earth was flat and the sun orbited around the earth. You could be put to death back then for disagreeing with the science of the day. 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

17 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

What do you think the science of the day was when it said the earth was flat and the sun orbited around the earth. You could be put to death back then for disagreeing with the science of the day. 

You aren't one of those people that think Columbus set sail to prove the Earth was round in 1492 are you?

 

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

Typical response 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

1 hour ago, Jeckrn1 said:

What do you think the science of the day was when it said the earth was flat and the sun orbited around the earth. You could be put to death back then for disagreeing with the science of the day. 

 

35 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

Typical response 

I'm not sure if you were responding to me or what, but here, I can lay it out in more detail. 

1. The earth was mathematically/scientifically proved to be spherical back in 4-500BC. Science provided the evidence that the Earth was not flat. 

2. Heliocentricity was supported by science and refuted by the Roman Catholic Church. Again, science was on the evidence side of the argument.

[jive turkey]

5 hours ago, BostonFNP said:

Latest vaccine hesitancy survey shows the majority of people not vaccinated are so due to non-justifiable reasons.  In fact, the majority (when given the opportunity) select just about all of the reasons. 

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/uzvg6sbeov/20210819_yahoo_vaccine_toplines.pdf

Are covid hospitalizations (or case positivity) rates higher in states that have higher or lower vaccination rates?

 

The gist of what I got is a lack of trust for the government and that the vaccine is too new.  

Whether or not those are justifiable reasons is fairly debatable. Those reasons certainly aren't deserving of the harsh criticism offered.  

I did say many people have justifiable reasons. One of which you and I agree on.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

28 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

The gist of what I got is a lack of trust for the government and that the vaccine is too new.  

Whether or not those are justifiable reasons is fairly debatable. Those reasons certainly aren't deserving of the harsh criticism offered.  

I did say many people have justifiable reasons. One of which you and I agree on.

I think it's more telling that the majority of people selected all the reasons when given an opportunity. Distrust of the government really isn't a valid/justifiable reason not to be vaccinated especially when those same people also list not having FDA approval as an excuse.  

[jive turkey]

1 hour ago, BostonFNP said:

I think it's more telling that the majority of people selected all the reasons when given an opportunity. Distrust of the government really isn't a valid/justifiable reason not to be vaccinated especially when those same people also list not having FDA approval as an excuse.  

There's the challenge.  The perspectives of the hesitant are commonly disregarded and dismissed as invalid.  Their fears often have justifiable scientific reasons behind them.  It can appear awfully threatening when society tells you that what you think should happen to your own body doesn't matter and you need to be forced/coerced/pressured/shamed in to taking an invasive drug.

I presume the vast majority of the hesitant aren't avoiding the vaccine to antagonize the world and conspire to infect people.  They are being treated as such.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

42 minutes ago, jive turkey said:

There's the challenge.  The perspectives of the hesitant are commonly disregarded and dismissed as invalid.  Their fears often have justifiable scientific reasons behind them.  It can appear awfully threatening when society tells you that what you think should happen to your own body doesn't matter and you need to be forced/coerced/pressured/shamed in to taking an invasive drug.

I presume the vast majority of the hesitant aren't avoiding the vaccine to antagonize the world and conspire to infect people.  They are being treated as such.

To be clear here, I use the terms valid and invalid from a scientific perspective. 

These perspectives should absolutely not be dismissed: they should be combated. The vast majority of the hesitancy we see with covid vaccination at this point has no valid or justifiable scientific reason behind it. If you look at the survey data on hesitancy above it shows:

• The vaccines are too new (65%)
• The FDA hasn’t fully approved the vaccines yet (47%)
• I’m concerned about short-term side effects (48%)
• I’m concerned about long-term side effects  (71%)
• Don’t trust any vaccines  (29%)
• Don’t trust the government (54%)
• Don’t trust drug companies (50%) 

There is no legitimate scientific evidence to support any of those rationales. Let alone the fact I'd really need someone to explain to me how one can simultaneously use the fact they distrust government and lack of FDA approval as an excuses. 

I don't think anyone is avoiding the vaccine to purposely infect people (I do think a fair amount might be doing to antagonize the opposite political party) but their choice has consequences and infecting other is one (I'm speaking here of people who are not being vaccinated for reasons other than medical contraindication). It may not be their intention, but the effect is that they are putting others in danger. They might not like getting treated like that but they may deserve it.

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

With the past history of this country it is not hard to understand why people do not trust the government. All you have to look at are some past operations this country has done; 

operation mockingbird 

mk-ultra

mk-naomi 

Tuskee experiment

 

just to name a few. Then you have  Dr Facui lying about the government funding Gain of Function. 

5 minutes ago, BostonFNP said:

To be clear here, I use the terms valid and invalid from a scientific perspective. 

These perspectives should absolutely not be dismissed: they should be combated. The vast majority of the hesitancy we see with covid vaccination at this point has no valid or justifiable scientific reason behind it. If you look at the survey data on hesitancy above it shows:

• The vaccines are too new (65%)
• The FDA hasn’t fully approved the vaccines yet (47%)
• I’m concerned about short-term side effects (48%)
• I’m concerned about long-term side effects  (71%)
• Don’t trust any vaccines  (29%)
• Don’t trust the government (54%)
• Don’t trust drug companies (50%) 

There is no legitimate scientific evidence to support any of those rationales. Let alone the fact I'd really need someone to explain to me how one can simultaneously use the fact they distrust government and lack of FDA approval as an excuses. 

I don't think anyone is avoiding the vaccine to purposely infect people (I do think a fair amount might be doing to antagonize the opposite political party) but their choice has consequences and infecting other is one (I'm speaking here of people who are not being vaccinated for reasons other than medical contraindication). It may not be their intention, but the effect is that they are putting others in danger. They might not like getting treated like that but they may deserve it.

All but “trusting vaccines” are legitimate reasons to be hesitant. 

[BostonFNP, APRN]

2 minutes ago, Jeckrn1 said:

With the past history of this country it is not hard to understand why people do not trust the government. 

All but “trusting vaccines” are legitimate reasons to be hesitant. 

The government didn't make the vaccines. The government isn't doing the trials or the studies. This is a worldwide problem with a worldwide solution in vaccinations. Unless all the 195 countries have secretly banded together with the hundreds of companies in the private sector to immunize people for the purpose of...

They are "legitimate" reasons for someone who googles "what are reasons I shouldn't get vaccinated".  

[Hannahbanana, BSN, MSN]

7 hours ago, Jeckrn1 said:

How many times in science was false information, conspiracy theories proven to be right?  Earth is flat and the sun orbits the earth. 

... Aaaaaaand, when we knew better after applying the scientific process as refined, we taught better. Although I must say there still some flat-earthers out there …

[Jeckrn1, ADN, BSN]

3 minutes ago, Hannahbanana said:

... Aaaaaaand, when we knew better after applying the scientific process as refined, we taught better. Although I must say there still some flat-earthers out there …

Yes there is but if people did not question the science of the day most would still believe the earth is flat.