After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"
In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.
I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.
Michele
I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.
Specializes in ICU, Paeds ICU, Correctional, Education.
Hi,
It's great to see that many nurses in the US are observing the comparative successes of other universal models of health care. As an Australian who works within that system, I can confirm that although there are a few problems, those problems would exist in the private system and might not be reported or regulated. The private hospitals are there for those private health insurance who elect to go there. They do not have emergency departments and rely on the public hospitals particularly when things go wrong. We currently have a doctor facing trial known as "The Butcher of Bega" who hid in the private system for years mutilating and assaulting women.
Apart from providing health care to all, the universal system in Australia also provides a number of other benefits including:
1.The provision of teaching hospitals that standardise and closely monitor medical and nursing practices
2.The provision of government funded reasearch that removes the bias from profit driven research
3. The provision and monitoring of standards for the application of medical equipment
4. The mandatory reporting and investigation of incidents, morbidity and mortality statistics
5. The enforcement of staff patient ratios which facilitates bed closures when there are not enough nurses
6. The provision of coordinated, collaborated and rapid reponses to disasters.
7. The unification of nursing education and training.
8. Personal indemnity insurance is not required. Our hospitals accept vicarious liability for our nursing practices.
9. The provision of bulk billing of Medicare for small medical practices that see patients.
I would like to add that our wages and conditions are not dictated or set by the government. As with all workers in Australia our wages and conditions are negotiated through the Industrial Relations Courts with applications made by our unions after negotiations with it's members. Our unions also serve to represent us with legal and industrial matters.
Our universal system works very well and provides undiscriminated health care for patients and is supported by a "balance and checks" framework.
Specializes in Med/Surg/Ortho/HH/Radiology-Now Retired.
They do not have emergency departments and rely on the public hospitals particularly when things go wrong.
Have to correct you on this point; some private hospitals do indeed have emergency departments. Their opening hours are often limited, but there are private hospitals in Australia with an ED.
It's great to see that many nurses in the US are observing the comparative successes of other universal models of health care. As an Australian who works within that system, I can confirm that although there are a few problems, those problems would exist in the private system and might not be reported or regulated. The private hospitals are there for those private health insurance who elect to go there. They do not have emergency departments and rely on the public hospitals particularly when things go wrong. We currently have a doctor facing trial known as "The Butcher of Bega" who hid in the private system for years mutilating and assaulting women.
Apart from providing health care to all, the universal system in Australia also provides a number of other benefits including:
1.The provision of teaching hospitals that standardise and closely monitor medical and nursing practices
2.The provision of government funded reasearch that removes the bias from profit driven research
3. The provision and monitoring of standards for the application of medical equipment
4. The mandatory reporting and investigation of incidents, morbidity and mortality statistics
5. The enforcement of staff patient ratios which facilitates bed closures when there are not enough nurses
6. The provision of coordinated, collaborated and rapid reponses to disasters.
7. The unification of nursing education and training.
8. Personal indemnity insurance is not required. Our hospitals accept vicarious liability for our nursing practices.
9. The provision of bulk billing of Medicare for small medical practices that see patients.
I would like to add that our wages and conditions are not dictated or set by the government. As with all workers in Australia our wages and conditions are negotiated through the Industrial Relations Courts with applications made by our unions after negotiations with it's members. Our unions also serve to represent us with legal and industrial matters.
Our universal system works very well and provides undiscriminated health care for patients and is supported by a "balance and checks" framework.
Wow, this is really great information to have; I wish you could come "on the road" with us and lend your credibility and experience to our movement for a Single-Payer system in the USA. Thanks for sharing. I'm going to print this and keep it in my speaker's packet so I can refer to it during my presentations when the naysayers try to hi-jack the debate.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
I realise your question was posted to CO2emission, and I'll only answer the part which is not pertinent to her/him.
Yes other Australian states do have ratios.
Thank you Grace!
I didn't know this. The Victoria ratios have gotten a lot of attention because four of their union leaders came to the U.S.A. speaking to nurses groups and the media.
I agree with RN4Mercy that an Australian nurse like CO2emission could help us a lot in this country.
Unfortunately that nurse would have to have the patience to deal with those like Mr.O'Reilly and worse. Or perhaps ignore those worse.
Many are a bit more polite.
Actually his rudeness was tampered compared to his usual because she is clearly a kind intelligent and well informed nurse.
Perhaps even he knows that healthcare for all is the right thing to do. He just doesn't think thatthe United States can do as well or better than Australia and the other democracies that do have healthcare for thier people.
Specializes in ICU, Paeds ICU, Correctional, Education.
Have to correct you on this point; some private hospitals do indeed have emergency departments. Their opening hours are often limited, but there are private hospitals in Australia with an ED.
Hi Grace...hope you had a memorable ANZAC day!
I am aware that a few private hospitals claim to have Emergency Departments. One that is only open during certain hours from where I'm sitting does not acknowledge the implications of an emergency! What happens when that emergency comes in 5 minutes before closing? An ambulance is called faster than you can say triple 0. I can recall the private hospital that (of course this doesn't get reported) opened up the doors of it's "Emergency" department to find the patient dead at the door with the claw marks on the glass above where he lay. Most of the few private hospitals that have these departments are annexed to a public hospital that picks up the pieces when things get tricky. Public hospitals often bear the burden of the mortality statistics as a result. Some "private" hospitals are under public health Area Health Authority contracts and are funded on the basis that they have to provide 50% of their beds to public patients which are funded by the public purse. They have EDs, but of course they are accredited and monitored by the Health Department and sit under their standards.
The ambulance services do not transport patients requiring emergency care to stand alone private hospitals. To me, this by itself, speaks volumes. I know, if I required emergency or complex care, where I would rather be.
herring_RN, ASN, BSN
3,651 Posts
Why not?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCQojqCpD8w&feature=related