After posting the piece about Nurses traveling to Germany and reading the feedback. I would like to open up a debate on this BB about "Universal Health Care" or "Single Payor Systems"
In doing this I hope to learn more about each side of the issue. I do not want to turn this into a heated horrific debate that ends in belittling one another as some other charged topics have ended, but a genuine debate about the Pros and Cons of proposed "Universal Health Care or Single Payor systems" I believe we can all agree to debate and we can all learn things we might not otherwise have the time to research.
I am going to begin by placing an article that discusses the cons of Universal Health Care with some statistics, and if anyone is willing please come in and try to debate some of the key points this brings up. With stats not hyped up words or hot air. I am truly interested in seeing the different sides of this issue. This effects us all, and in order to make an informed decision we need to see "all" sides of the issue. Thanks in advance for participating.
Michele
I am going to have to post the article in several pieces because the bulletin board only will allow 3000 characters.So see the next posts.
Lets get to the facts people. we spend twice as much as any other country on health care and yet ahve miserable statics regarding morbidity, life expectancy and infant mortality rates. So what exactly are we spending so much on? administration. Now I am not taking about the fantastic unit assistants and case workers, I mean the insurance companies hire employees to routinely deny our claims in an attempt to pay out the least amount of money possible for care provided. It seems like any system in which we could cut out 1/3 of our budget byu stream lining insurance into a single-payer system, there by providing more healthy workers to stimulate the economy, would be beneficial for us all. Lets just look at Medicare's payout for low income people with insulin dependent diabetes. The government insurance company will pay for 100 glucose sticks for 3 months. It costs the average diabetic at least 3 dollars a day for the fingersticks ( remember these are essential for disease control). so what we have got is a 90$ a month out of pocket fee for these patients. Now why are they on medicare (.... because it is such a great system? common now) it is a system designed for the low income population of our nation, since we have no other affordable insurance. SO to get back on track here, Diabetes leads to fatal and chronic disablilty and comorbidity of not treated. Most of these comorbidities can be prevented if managed properly. They cost the country upwards of 92 million a year (direct cost CDC). If we took the amount of people in need of glucose sticks and gave it to them free for the rest of their lives and provided them with well payed case workers who were not overburdened, it would not cost close to 92 million a year. Single payer health care is about having a government that is responsible to its citizens and about preventing useless waste of money we taxpayers already pay toward health care.
There is at least a 900% markup in the cost of test strips. A diabetic journalist did research on the cost of strips. They cost about 9 cents each to manufacture. The 5 companies that make these strips all charge roughly a dollar per test strip. Competition does not bring costs down absent the hand of large organizations.
That must be why the glucose meters are so inexpensive.
Bingo! I used to do diabetes education and we gave away glucometers because Bayer gave them to us for free. The glucometers were not where they made their money; it was the strips. This directly from a Bayer rep whom I talked to while I was working at the community health center where all this took place.
I'm having a hard time with Universal Healthcare. I know of someone who died in Spain because of the quality of that system. This man had cancer and he did not know it, nor did they find it until it was too late. He had to wait six months to even get an x-ray. 6 months!!! Just for a simple x-ray or diagnostic test. Why would anyone be willing to risk rationed healthcare? We have it sooooo good in the United States as far as healthcare is concerned. You have no idea. I think healthcare should stay the way it is. Those that have good healthcare work their butts off for it. Why should someone that works hard suffer for those that don't lift a finger?? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
I'm having a hard time with Universal Healthcare. I know of someone who died in Spain because of the quality of that system. This man had cancer and he did not know it, nor did they find it until it was too late. He had to wait six months to even get an x-ray. 6 months!!! Just for a simple x-ray or diagnostic test. Why would anyone be willing to risk rationed healthcare? We have it sooooo good in the United States as far as healthcare is concerned. You have no idea. I think healthcare should stay the way it is. Those that have good healthcare work their butts off for it. Why should someone that works hard suffer for those that don't lift a finger?? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
the classic 'i'm all right jack' mentality that hampers any kind of sensible reform of anything in the USA, how any one can think that a health system bloated with layers of pointless adminstration to creating bills for making bills is efficient ...
people love to quote these friend of a friend anecdotes, but quitesimply this is not the case , certainly with respect to the NHS although some of the time driven targets are arbitrary ( e.g. 4 hour A+E target) other targets have meaningful impact on service provision e.g. 2 week rule for cancer rule out, the rapid access chest pain rules and now 18 weeks for electives
how anyone can think a system which allows Emergency department holds for days on end is good ... ?
how anyone can think a system which enslaves people with a pre-existing medical condition to the employer they had when it was first diagnosed is good ?
Specializes in Spinal Cord injuries, Emergency+EMS.
Bingo! I used to do diabetes education and we gave away glucometers because Bayer gave them to us for free. The glucometers were not where they made their money; it was the strips. This directly from a Bayer rep whom I talked to while I was working at the community health center where all this took place.
which is the classic business model of anything which used lots of consumables ...
I'm having a hard time with Universal Healthcare. I know of someone who died in Spain because of the quality of that system. This man had cancer and he did not know it, nor did they find it until it was too late. He had to wait six months to even get an x-ray. 6 months!!! Just for a simple x-ray or diagnostic test. Why would anyone be willing to risk rationed healthcare? We have it sooooo good in the United States as far as healthcare is concerned. You have no idea. I think healthcare should stay the way it is. Those that have good healthcare work their butts off for it. Why should someone that works hard suffer for those that don't lift a finger?? That doesn't make sense to me at all.
The whole point of the present healthcare crisis is that millions of hard working people can no longer afford healthcare. So, people who have "worked their butts off" their whole working lives are now without healthcare. They work just as hard as you.
All systems will have their faults. It takes years/decades/centuries to work out all the kinks.
The whole point of the present healthcare crisis is that millions of hard working people can no longer afford healthcare. So, people who have "worked their butts off" their whole working lives are now without healthcare. They work just as hard as you.
All systems will have their faults. It takes years/decades/centuries to work out all the kinks.
Your right. Thanks for helping me out on that. Its one of those things that had been bothering me. It would be nice if there was a happy medium between the two options. And your right it takes alot of time to get every system running smoothly.
Specializes in Critical care, tele, Medical-Surgical.
Regarding Spanish healthcareI only have second hand anecdotal information.
My stepmother and Dad toured Europe while she needed twicw weekly chemotherapy. The dose was dependent on the CBC result.
Her MD arrainged for her treatment in Italy, France, Portugal, Spain and France.
Only in Spain was there a problem.
The outpatient center was not ready for her, lost her blood, and made her return the next day. An employee let them know he didn't like Americans and Mexicans are worse. (My Dad spoke fluent Spanish learned from Mexican Americans so it must have been his accent)
They actually asked a hotel employee who referred them to a hospital where she was treated the next day. They didn;t have to pay because the original incompetent clinic had already been paid.
This is what I was told. I can't imagine traveling so far when undergoing chemo but that was years ago. She is fine now.
I think it wouldn't be very hard to look for misdiagnosis stories in the US. See Overtreated by Brownlee for an interesting discussion about the dangers of overtreatment.
megan.cody3
1 Post
Lets get to the facts people. we spend twice as much as any other country on health care and yet ahve miserable statics regarding morbidity, life expectancy and infant mortality rates. So what exactly are we spending so much on? administration. Now I am not taking about the fantastic unit assistants and case workers, I mean the insurance companies hire employees to routinely deny our claims in an attempt to pay out the least amount of money possible for care provided. It seems like any system in which we could cut out 1/3 of our budget byu stream lining insurance into a single-payer system, there by providing more healthy workers to stimulate the economy, would be beneficial for us all. Lets just look at Medicare's payout for low income people with insulin dependent diabetes. The government insurance company will pay for 100 glucose sticks for 3 months. It costs the average diabetic at least 3 dollars a day for the fingersticks ( remember these are essential for disease control). so what we have got is a 90$ a month out of pocket fee for these patients. Now why are they on medicare (.... because it is such a great system? common now) it is a system designed for the low income population of our nation, since we have no other affordable insurance. SO to get back on track here, Diabetes leads to fatal and chronic disablilty and comorbidity of not treated. Most of these comorbidities can be prevented if managed properly. They cost the country upwards of 92 million a year (direct cost CDC). If we took the amount of people in need of glucose sticks and gave it to them free for the rest of their lives and provided them with well payed case workers who were not overburdened, it would not cost close to 92 million a year. Single payer health care is about having a government that is responsible to its citizens and about preventing useless waste of money we taxpayers already pay toward health care.