Our hospital pushed hard for random drug testing in our latest contract. The union gave in, in favor of some other items.
They have started pulling people from their sfifts, escorting to employee health nurse, and demanding urine.
My feelings are mixed. I'm against drug use generally, but actually don't care what people do on their days off. As long as you aren't diverting or impaired on the job, that's good enough for me. I don't see how random testing people who aren't acting suspiciously helps.
There are a lot of things that can impair you at work that don't involve drugs. Sleep deprivation comes to mind. Personal turmoil in one's life can distract a person from doing a good job at work.
Another thing, I've read on the recovery site here that there are things that can interfere with an accurate drug test. Eating certain foods can cause a false positive. It seems like it might be a big complication for innocent people.
As a side note it seems like the union gives up more and more every contract.
Your cavalier attitude will not do anything for your BON, their stance is for patient safety and they are pretty clear, any opioid in your system, on or off duty is enough for discipline. They don't care if they are needed so you can work,they don't care if this is what is keeping you off disability.
No, you are wrong. It's already been pointed out that you are wrong. Continuing to post wrong things does not make those things the truth.
Why do people spread so much misinformation. You'd think this was the internet or something. :/
Specializes in ER, ICU/CCU, Open Heart OR Recovery, Etc.
This thread reminds me of what happened post 9-11 that has resulted in this "Security State" we call the US. We all just wanted to feel "safe". But at what price? Wiretapping was justified in the name of catching terrorists and keeping all of us "safe". Then Edward Snowden revealed what he did and we realized that anything we did, innocently, was potential fodder for scrutiny and review.
But I digress. This random testing of anyone can very easily be abused by management as was pointed out above. Random screens catch people that are legitimately taking medications for chronic conditions, people that drank wine or beer the night before, people that didn't use anything "illegal" but that consumed something that caused a positive as well as "catching" addicts. Not only is this a violation of basic bodily integrity, it creates an atmosphere of uneasiness, fear, and opposition. It's not a matter of "if one isn't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about". It's the fact that there aren't any limits to what can be done and who can be swept up. I know of a few people that were not taking anything that ended up at the wrong end of a policy like this, and for what? If the employer automatically reports to the BON with a positive test or calls the police, things can go from a "misunderstanding" to a monitoring program pretty quickly depending on the state. Drug testing, and Pyxis use, are not infallible.
Not to mention the fact that over reach and over reaction based on misunderstanding, stigma, and misinformation, does not deter addiction. It just makes it harder for addicts to get the help that they need. Not all addicts act strangely at work and get caught and not all addicts divert from work. Not everyone that is abusing a substance is an addict. Not everyone using a substance is an addict. Addiction is not a moral issue.
Bad policy, whether it is for national security or drug use, leads to bad consequences.
Your cavalier attitude will not do anything for your BON, their stance is for patient safety and they are pretty clear, any opioid in your system, on or off duty is enough for discipline. They don't care if they are needed so you can work,they don't care if this is what is keeping you off disability.
So any nurse who has surgery or just had a baby or who breaks a bone or gets burned, has to forego pain meds while not caring for patients? I didn't say anything about "needing them for work." I said specifically, when I have needed opioids they were not taken the day of my shifts. How does a short acting med taken 24 hrs before patient care, compromise patient safety? It doesn't.
This thread reminds me of what happened post 9-11 that has resulted in this "Security State" we call the US. We all just wanted to feel "safe". But at what price? Wiretapping was justified in the name of catching terrorists and keeping all of us "safe". Then Edward Snowden revealed what he did and we realized that anything we did, innocently, was potential fodder for scrutiny and review.
But I digress. This random testing of anyone can very easily be abused by management as was pointed out above. Random screens catch people that are legitimately taking medications for chronic conditions, people that drank wine or beer the night before, people that didn't use anything "illegal" but that consumed something that caused a positive as well as "catching" addicts. Not only is this a violation of basic bodily integrity, it creates an atmosphere of uneasiness, fear, and opposition. It's not a matter of "if one isn't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about". It's the fact that there aren't any limits to what can be done and who can be swept up. I know of a few people that were not taking anything that ended up at the wrong end of a policy like this, and for what? If the employer automatically reports to the BON with a positive test or calls the police, things can go from a "misunderstanding" to a monitoring program pretty quickly depending on the state. Drug testing, and Pyxis use, are not infallible.
Not to mention the fact that over reach and over reaction based on misunderstanding, stigma, and misinformation, does not deter addiction. It just makes it harder for addicts to get the help that they need. Not all addicts act strangely at work and get caught and not all addicts divert from work. Not everyone that is abusing a substance is an addict. Not everyone using a substance is an addict. Addiction is not a moral issue.
Bad policy, whether it is for national security or drug use, leads to bad consequences.
In your mind, is there anybody anywhere that should be subject to random drug screns?
I am a proponent of testing. All BON's are pretty clear, on or off duty, narcotics are not OK. The incidence of abuse amongst nurses is higher than national average and therefore, should be policed. Unions get a lot for their employees without much compromise given the employer, this is small change in the big picture. Yeah for the hospital.
What if it's prescribed? You have problem gen? What if it's a narcotic with no side effects because it's extends release? Blanket statements don't work. You
I'll be 100% honest. I take a prescribed narcotic daily. Now that j work nights, it's out if my system by then, but t was while I worked days.
I honestly feel like I need it more in the morning now that I work nights as I am in so much pain when I get home. The pain by 0600 is almost unbearable for me. My pain manage today doc want to try and switch me to either halving my dose for a 24 hour protection or me switching it to night shift. I can't halve the med. I tried years ago and was miserable as it didn't help me at all. It worked better for 12 hour protection.
Attitudes on here kill me. My employer knows. They have no problem as long as it's prescribed. On days, I was never impaired. Narcotic meds do not impair everyone and they don't impair if prescribed properly. I have a legitimated chronic pain condition. I've had it since I was 15 years old.
I have mixed feelings on random drug tests. If you can prove you were prescribed,there should be no issues. But so many other things fall into place sometimes. I've had them before and have never failed one, but, I've had inadequate testing places lose my samples or the employees not follow the rules so I live in fear that somehow I get blamed for them. I've worried unecessarily, I just hate feeling like a criminal for me following the law.
But I also know there are people out there who don't follow the rules. So I am punished for you.
Your cavalier attitude will not do anything for your BON, their stance is for patient safety and they are pretty clear, any opioid in your system, on or off duty is enough for discipline. They don't care if they are needed so you can work,they don't care if this is what is keeping you off disability.
Its your cavalier attitude I have an issue with. Sorry. What you are saying is so not true. Maybe another pharm class is in order.
Sounds like this is something the hospital wanted, and the union didn't think they'd be successful in fighting it. In any case, what individual employees are ok with as it relates to their coworker's illegal activities during their off time is clearly irrelevant.
It would make sense that there must be SOME reason the hospital is willing to shell out the bucks to do this. Something to do with drug use/drug diversion has obviously been presenting a problem on some level.
If they want to give you a hard time, they will. I have a friend who is now under monitoring because they did a chart audit on him after a random UDS came back positive for a med that he had a valid script (benzo) for. He had a string of five shifts within the last six months where he gave "more pain meds then anyone else on his floor" and one time in the last 12 months where he had 1 mg of dilaudid unaccounted for between what was charted as given and what was charted as wasted.
It's a slippery slope argument but it really doesn't take much once that ball gets rolling.
It is not acceptable to have any Dilaudid unaccounted for. It's just not.
As for the giving more pain meds than anyone else - did they look at his patients compared to the patients the other nurses had? Post-op? Withdrawing? Bigger body mass? Whatever other reason someone might legitimately need pain med or Benzo's?
cyc0sys
229 Posts
The employers is essentially violating your HIPAA rights while you are responsible for protecting the patient's.