Undocumented Patients

Zooey72 · Dec 29, 2016

Of course,
You sound "un pleased" to say the least that people are coming from the border and receiving medical care for free. You then mentioned they received a free car seat-which I thought was needed to protect the safety of the newborn and was mandated by law that the baby can't be released without one even if they wanted to. ---but what do I know. You also dislike the free pain medication-How dare she ask for medication to decrease pain, and she has an attitude and is being mean....No sir, she's not paying, so she shouldn't get it...right? You also spoke of the free diapers, baby food and baby clothes that will last them what 3 days...how dare they take those things to meet essential human needs of a baby? You also went on to state that you didn't get a bonus and received a cut in hours all at the blame of the illegals..for you to know all this for fact you must have to dabble in administrative, billing, and nursing...you handle all of that? Seems like that hospital needs to be shut down, that's too much! Lastly, I think your biggest problem is that you have to pay and they got it for free...and while on the surface I can see the "unfairness". But that's just the surface, I bet a Mexican might argue that its unfair that you were born here and her there. Then you went on to say that in Mexico they would let you die if you had no money, so I asked is that what you are proposing we do to them?

These things are not "free", and yes saying "how dare she *fill in the blank*" is a great question. How dare anyone steal services? If you think that these thins are essential I suggest you donate your check to them and buy these things for them. You can do what you like with your $, don't demonize people who don't want to pay for medical services for others.

And the statement "she would say it is not that you got to be born here" is a child's argument. It's not fair that I am not the child of Bill Gates and have never had to work a day in my life. It is not fair that I am not Micheal Jordan with limitless athletic ability. You can play the "it's not fair game" till you are blue in the face because there will always be someone who has more than what you do.

What I find stunning is that I am betting you have not directly paid for any of the "how dare she" things you just stated (at least not directly through buying someone a car seat or whatever), but you are all to ready to spend other people's money and call it altruistic. If you have given to people like that good for you, but your charity does not extend past your bank account into anyone else's.

Longleggedstar · Dec 29, 2016

If Satan himself came in needing burn ointment from him torturing souls in hell I would need to treat him as well as I would treat Jesus Christ.
That being said, everyone should be I.D.'d when they come in. All of us have to have a background check to be nurses, why shouldn't someone looking for treatment (and as the OP pointed out - free service in that example) be held to the same standard? If they are not here legally than let ICE deal with them. The argument that they won't seek treatment is not a valid one for me. You don't get to walk into any service related industry, spend 1000's of dollars knowing you can't/won't pay it back and get to be insulted by the process. The nature of illegal immigration is that these people do not pay income tax; so what they don't pay we all pay in the way of higher taxes and insurance costs. If you think that they should be given legal status fine - right your congressman. But while they are here their very presence is a crime and it should be reported. What the authorities do after that is none of my concern. Obama looked the other way, Trump wants to deport. Wherever you fall on the issue your voice of what happens comes with your vote.
Lastly, there are plenty of people here that are citizens who do the same thing. They are Americans and a debate can be had as to what to do about healthcare. But our financial obligation should not extend to people who are not citizens.

Having to have a background check to be a nurse vs someone coming in for service..Why are you comparing those again. You do realize...nevermind

Who told you that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes? Who? please, I do volunteer work at my church during tax season. I help loads of illegal/undocumented people file their taxes.

Again, and Obama has the deported the highest number of illegal immigrants in American history...so I am not sure where you are getting all this information.

catsmeow1972, BSN, RN · Dec 29, 2016

While we are making "generalizations".....I used to work ER. One night we had a person in there. Just before discharge, after treatment was all said and done, registration came in and said "you have a $3 Medicaid co-pay" The response was something to the effect of "I a'int got that." However the group of them (a couple of adults and 2-3 kids) had sodas from the vending machine, one was clutching a bag from McDonald's and the adults all had nice new cell phones, and a pack or two of cigarettes in their open bag. Meanwhile we had a Spanish-speaking couple across the department. They had a brand new baby with them. Dad looked like he probably worked outside. Mom was well, typical mom, i guess I would put it. She had developed a huge DVT and was getting a drip. Registration came in and said "Since you have no insurance, we are going to have to ask for a $200 deposit against your bill. Dad reached into his pocket and pulled out a neat roll of cash, peeled off the money and handed it to her without blinking. Were they illegal? I dunno, maybe. They quite probably were migrant workers. Who do you think i had more respect for? Goes to show that illegal status or not has nothing to do with rude or polite, entitled or grateful. i'm going to treat them the same, regardless.

Longleggedstar · Dec 29, 2016

These things are not "free", and yes saying "how dare she *fill in the blank*" is a great question. How dare anyone steal services? If you think that these thins are essential I suggest you donate your check to them and buy these things for them. You can do what you like with your $, don't demonize people who don't want to pay for medical services for others.
And the statement "she would say it is not that you got to be born here" is a child's argument. It's not fair that I am not the child of Bill Gates and have never had to work a day in my life. It is not fair that I am not Micheal Jordan with limitless athletic ability. You can play the "it's not fair game" till you are blue in the face because there will always be someone who has more than what you do.
What I find stunning is that I am betting you have not directly paid for any of the "how dare she" things you just stated (at least not directly through buying someone a car seat or whatever), but you are all to ready to spend other people's money and call it altruistic. If you have given to people like that good for you, but your charity does not extend past your bank account into anyone else's.

If you are betting you lose :)...Me and my family have donated our fair share of time and money to hospitals, organizations, and missioned in different countries for some of these reasons, and so have thousands of other Americans---so I'm not sure where your going there.

You say don't demonize people, etc.---How did I demonize her again. I ask a simple question. Do you let them die, what should we do? Too real of a question?..That must be why no one can or dares to answer it.

And I agree screaming "unfairness" is a child's game..that was my entire point..Thank you for reiterating that

Lastly, you seem highly triggered for things I and many Americans are willing to give to those in need, when you yourself have obviously never handed someone a car seat. $0 has come out of your bank out. Lastly, I see that you are a nursing student so just in case no one has informed you.(ask your professor if you don't believe me) When you become a nurse, altruism is apart of the job! ..Good Luck finishing school.

Skippingtowork · Dec 29, 2016

If Satan himself came in needing burn ointment from him torturing souls in hell I would need to treat him as well as I would treat Jesus Christ.
That being said, everyone should be I.D.'d when they come in. All of us have to have a background check to be nurses, why shouldn't someone looking for treatment (and as the OP pointed out - free service in that example) be held to the same standard? If they are not here legally than let ICE deal with them. The argument that they won't seek treatment is not a valid one for me. You don't get to walk into any service related industry, spend 1000's of dollars knowing you can't/won't pay it back and get to be insulted by the process. The nature of illegal immigration is that these people do not pay income tax; so what they don't pay we all pay in the way of higher taxes and insurance costs. If you think that they should be given legal status fine - right your congressman. But while they are here their very presence is a crime and it should be reported. What the authorities do after that is none of my concern. Obama looked the other way, Trump wants to deport. Wherever you fall on the issue your voice of what happens comes with your vote.
Lastly, there are plenty of people here that are citizens who do the same thing. They are Americans and a debate can be had as to what to do about healthcare. But our financial obligation should not extend to people who are not citizens.

Zooey72, it is quite clear that you are at the very beginning of your educational process, because some of what you wrote does not reflect conclusions based on research or appropriate level of knowledge of how life really works. When a person goes to the hospital, NO ONE carries proof of legal status in country. That would be quite strange (unless accident happened enroute to airport). Did you know that there are thousands of illegals from Europe, Australia, Canada, etc. What would trigger a question about their legal status? Also, calling ICE from the hospital is the same as someone calling 911 for incorrect fast food order. Yes you were inconvenienced. No, I don't care.

Obama deported more illegals than any other U.S. president. That is why many immigrant groups are upset. How could you have missed that? Trump doesn't care that illegals are here. They are good for business and he's a businessman. He just said that to stir up the natives. He has been married to two foreigners and really really likes them.

Last, non-U.S. citizens have the same rights as citizens (with few exceptions). You don't have to be a citizen to live here (that should have been taught in U.S. government, grade 12). There are many on this forum who are not citizens and will be working along side you (if future employers are ok with your thinking).

quazar · Dec 30, 2016

Regardless of where you stand politically, please, take a moment and reflect. If you have ever been at the lowest of lows, one of the "looked down upon," one of "those people" in life, trust me when I say to you, a kind face and a warm and personable soul who does not judge you when you are at your worst is the biggest blessing in life you can receive.

I still remember not only the face of the nurse who was there for me in that time, even though she was only there for a brief time, but I most distinctly remember how she made me feel. She never made me feel like I was less than, not worthy, bad, etc.. She only showed me kindness and compassion when I so, so badly needed it. She could have judged me 6 ways to Sunday, and she probably would have been correct. But she didn't.

I'm not saying be a doormat and accept verbal abuse or physical abuse from patients. I am, however, saying that the brief contact you have with these people who are in dire need (yes, they are) can stay with them for a lifetime. It can mean everything. Make it something good. Make your mark on this earth something good, because you can.

/hippy dippy moment

Zooey72 · Dec 30, 2016

Zooey72, it is quite clear that you are at the very beginning of your educational process, because some of what you wrote does not reflect conclusions based on research or appropriate level of knowledge of how life really works. When a person goes to the hospital, NO ONE carries proof of legal status in country. That would be quite strange (unless accident happened enroute to airport). Did you know that there are thousands of illegals from Europe, Australia, Canada, etc. What would trigger a question about their legal status? Also, calling ICE from the hospital is the same as someone calling 911 for incorrect fast food order. Yes you were inconvenienced. No, I don't care.
Obama deported more illegals than any other U.S. president. That is why many immigrant groups are upset. How could you have missed that? Trump doesn't care that illegals are here. They are good for business and he's a businessman. He just said that to stir up the natives. He has been married to two foreigners and really really likes them.
Last, non-U.S. citizens have the same rights as citizens (with few exceptions). You don't have to be a citizen to live here (that should have been taught in U.S. government, grade 12). There are many on this forum who are not citizens and will be working along side you (if future employers are ok with your thinking).

I didn't miss it because it isn't true. BO changed the way that the numbers are counted (kind of like how he claims we almost have full employment despite the fact that worker participation is at an all time high). As far as my education goes, I have a degree in history, so I could do w/o the being lectured by someone who I bet does not.

I could care less where an illegal immigrant comes from. There are over 40k Irish in the New York city area and they are breaking the law just as much as someone who comes here south of the border. You are injecting race, not I. And how would you screen? Oh I don't know, I need to have I.D. to buy a beer I don't think it is too much to ask someone for identification for receiving thousands of dollars of tax payer/insurance money. There is no "trigger" for what prompts someone to show ID... everyone should show I.D. And as far as non-US citizens go, I thought we were talking about people who are here illegally? But if you want to talk about people with Visas or students that fine. Those programs are not set up to help those people exclusively, we are supposed to benefit from them being here as well. No one has a right to come here, immigration is supposed to benefit this country and it is a nice side note if the individual who comes here benefits as well.

And who Donald Trump has married is of no concern to me. Is his wife here legally? I would think so, so whatever strawman argument you are trying to make stops right there. And as far as what he is going to do, I don't think Trump knows what he is going to do. I am basing my statements off of what he has said.

NO ONE carries proof of legal status in this country when they go to the hospital (that is ridiculous, the VAST majority of people over 16 have a driver's license). While ID is not required (nor should it be) everyone does have a SS#. If someone shows up to a hospital and they have no way to identify themselves that is suspicious all on its own. They can't they tell you where they live? They can't tell you a name? They can't tell you where they went to school? Now if someone has had a stroke in a mall or some other kind of thing there are ways to find out who that person is so that you can contact their family. You are trying to make some irrational argument that 'it can't be done' when it clearly can be. You have a political slant on this, so you don't want it to be done. There is a difference.

The person who is helping illegals with their taxes... how does that work exactly? Whose SS# do you use to help them in their fraud? If you fill in the blank where the SS should go with "I am illegal" than the government is not doing their job because they just got a tax return from someone who has admitted to a crime. I have no doubt what you are saying is true, but that does not make it legal just because the federal government is not enforcing the law.

And the poster who does a lot of charity work and all that. That's fine, and your choice. I would never tell someone how to spend their money/time as long as what they were doing is legal. All I ask is the same thing, and saying "how dare you" because I don't want my tax money being spent on people here illegally is my perspective.

Reporting someone to ICE as being the same thing as dialing 911 for a missed food order. Wow that's a stretch. Leaving aside the illegals who may be committing tax fraud by using fake social security numbers, or just paying taxes and telling the gov "I am illegal", how do you figure that not putting cheese on my Whopper is the same thing as violating our borders, not paying taxes, and breaking our laws?

And your 12th grade comment. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and show your ignorance proudly. No one was talking about legal immigrants, or people who have come here legally to work. You have no way of answering the question "what about the illegals", so you change the question to one that was not asked.

Lastly, no you don't turn anyone away at a hospital. I thought my comment on Satan/Christ made that obvious. You I.D. the person and let whatever steps after that take care of itself

Oh, and to the "BO has deported more people" nonsense:

High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

Asystole RN · Dec 30, 2016

Not making a good case for myself? I am stating facts pulled from the centers of immigration studies, not from what "I think" (as you indicated above). The 27 percent includes illegal and legal immigrants, I am unsure of your expertise with immigrants but it is very easy for them to go into legal vs illegal status based on expiration dates. Although the OP is only addressing undocumented immigrants, lets face it when some mention the word immigrant (especially when the accent is too thick, English less proficient, and certain documents seem to be misplaced). Legality comes to the forefront. Back to the problem of bigotry I was addressing, to be constantly calling out immigrants (undocumented or not) for being uninsured when we have 73% of Americans who are uninsured who also abuse the system is ludicrous. If the real issue is the abuse of the system. Why not speak on all people that abuse the system.

As a first generation American the REAL issue is that some inconsiderate laws breaking individuals choose to abuse the overwhelmingly generous system that we have in the United States. As someone who's immediate family went through the process LEGALLY I have zero sympathy for law breaking individuals.

Personally, as a first generation American, as someone who still has immediate family going through the process to become citizens, I believe they should round up every single illegal immigrant and immediately deport them. No. Sympathy.

I do not think you understand your statistics. A small percentage of the population represents a proportionally large percentage of the uninsured. Personally I do not believe that being uninsured is abuse however.

People who are committing felonies should are lucky that the United States is so generous of a country to provide basic emergent care without throwing them in prison like many other countries.

the_murse_factor · Dec 30, 2016

I have run across two undocumented patients now. Both in similar situations in that they can't leave the hospital because facilities won't take them due to their status. Both are the rudest patients I've ever met.

I never came across any undocumented patients but I have had the pleasure of caring for a few rude American Citizens.

Also the rudness that you appear to be witnessing could in fact be that they are just scared. Undocumented people tend to stay out of the healthcare system in fear of being caught and deported.

Longleggedstar · Dec 30, 2016

I didn't miss it because it isn't true. BO changed the way that the numbers are counted (kind of like how he claims we almost have full employment despite the fact that worker participation is at an all time high). As far as my education goes, I have a degree in history, so I could do w/o the being lectured by someone who I bet does not.
I could care less where an illegal immigrant comes from. There are over 40k Irish in the New York city area and they are breaking the law just as much as someone who comes here south of the border. You are injecting race, not I. And how would you screen? Oh I don't know, I need to have I.D. to buy a beer I don't think it is too much to ask someone for identification for receiving thousands of dollars of tax payer/insurance money. There is no "trigger" for what prompts someone to show ID... everyone should show I.D. And as far as non-US citizens go, I thought we were talking about people who are here illegally? But if you want to talk about people with Visas or students that fine. Those programs are not set up to help those people exclusively, we are supposed to benefit from them being here as well. No one has a right to come here, immigration is supposed to benefit this country and it is a nice side note if the individual who comes here benefits as well.
And who Donald Trump has married is of no concern to me. Is his wife here legally? I would think so, so whatever strawman argument you are trying to make stops right there. And as far as what he is going to do, I don't think Trump knows what he is going to do. I am basing my statements off of what he has said.
NO ONE carries proof of legal status in this country when they go to the hospital (that is ridiculous, the VAST majority of people over 16 have a driver's license). While ID is not required (nor should it be) everyone does have a SS#. If someone shows up to a hospital and they have no way to identify themselves that is suspicious all on its own. They can't they tell you where they live? They can't tell you a name? They can't tell you where they went to school? Now if someone has had a stroke in a mall or some other kind of thing there are ways to find out who that person is so that you can contact their family. You are trying to make some irrational argument that 'it can't be done' when it clearly can be. You have a political slant on this, so you don't want it to be done. There is a difference.
The person who is helping illegals with their taxes... how does that work exactly? Whose SS# do you use to help them in their fraud? If you fill in the blank where the SS should go with "I am illegal" than the government is not doing their job because they just got a tax return from someone who has admitted to a crime. I have no doubt what you are saying is true, but that does not make it legal just because the federal government is not enforcing the law.
And the poster who does a lot of charity work and all that. That's fine, and your choice. I would never tell someone how to spend their money/time as long as what they were doing is legal. All I ask is the same thing, and saying "how dare you" because I don't want my tax money being spent on people here illegally is my perspective.
Reporting someone to ICE as being the same thing as dialing 911 for a missed food order. Wow that's a stretch. Leaving aside the illegals who may be committing tax fraud by using fake social security numbers, or just paying taxes and telling the gov "I am illegal", how do you figure that not putting cheese on my Whopper is the same thing as violating our borders, not paying taxes, and breaking our laws?
And your 12th grade comment. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about and show your ignorance proudly. No one was talking about legal immigrants, or people who have come here legally to work. You have no way of answering the question "what about the illegals", so you change the question to one that was not asked.
Lastly, no you don't turn anyone away at a hospital. I thought my comment on Satan/Christ made that obvious. You I.D. the person and let whatever steps after that take care of itself
Oh, and to the "BO has deported more people" nonsense:
High deportation figures are misleading - LA Times

The fact that you are stating ID to be used to even remotely screen someone for legal vs. illegal status...lets me know you are grossly lost when in comes to immigration. Tip: ID is not how you prove citizenship anywhere in the USA. And How many people do you know who walk around with their SS card or Birth Certificate, passport, etc. You want them to SHOW proof right? So far you have stated that illegal immigrants don't file taxes-btw they use a Tax ID provided by the IRS specifically for those who don't have a SSN (please educate yourself on that matter), don't pay for healthcare (b/c none of them have cash or morality... right?) and now they don't have ID? You really think illegal immigrants, don't have ID? This is laughable, good luck!

Zooey72 · Dec 30, 2016

If you are talking about forged documents than you can add that as another crime. If this is so impossible, why did the federal government intervene and it go to the supreme court when Arizona was going to check ID (as in a driver's license) when they pulled people over? And for the record, the Supreme Court did not say that government did not have the right to check citizenship, they said that it was a federal matter and if the feds didn't want Arizona to they couldn't.

But you're right. ID is meaningless! Your argument is beyond absurd... And TIP: With the exception of a handful of states you can not get a driver's license w/o being a citizen. Soooo, if you can't get a driver's license if you are illegal, and driver's licenses are held by almost everyone in the adult population.... I'll let you connect the dots. And to the people who do not have driver's licenses for whatever reason, to function in this country (legally) you must have some way of identifying yourself. Or here is an easy one, check the social security number. Every single person in this country has one (that is here legally). How again do you file taxes w/o a SS#? And I do not have the numbers, but I am pretty sure most illegals do not have health insurance by nature of their employers not supplying it (since the employer is doing something illegal by hiring them). So ya, they probably don't have it for the most part.

I love it. "ID is not used to identify people". Ok, good luck with that argument. Never mind the fact that giving illegals ID is one of the biggest ways some states are trying to circumvent federal law. You can't even catch a fish in this country w/o a license.

And I noticed after I destroyed your "Obama has deported more illegals than anyone" propaganda you have nothing to say about that. Your statement about that shows exactly how little you know on the subject. Here is a logic test for you. BO says he does not plan on enforcing immigration laws on anyone unless they are a hard core criminal, how can he have possibly deported more people than any other president in our history?

Here is a hint, HE LIED by changing the definition of what 'deporting' is. What he did is like me saying my car gets 10000 miles to the gallon, but than I redefine a gallon by saying it is actually 300 gallons.

Longleggedstar · Dec 30, 2016

Reading is fundamental...where did I state "ID is not used to identify people". Please help me find those words. I'll wait. If you are here to spread lies you are in the wrong community.

Again, I have helped many undocumented immigrants file taxes as they are trying to avoid breaking another law. The IRS encourages them to file taxes! Its a fact. Sorry but you cant just make it go away because you don't like it.

What did you destroy?? Haha... I didn't argue with you on that because he has deported more illegals. Its there in black and white. Just because you have a problem with our president (I think everyone here sees that) doesn't change facts.