Undocumented Patients

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What do you think about undocumented patients who abuse the hospital system? Anyone have undocumented patients who basically live at the hospital because their families can't take care of them, and they can't go to a facility because of their undocumented status?

Don't feel attacked, members of that group (immigrants) are treated with hatred and intolerance in this country. And in this situation it is evident because the number of Americans that abuse the healthcare system compared to immigrants is massive. According to Centers for Immigration Studies, immigrants account for 27 percent of those uninsured and while it certainly contributes it is not the majority. So when we slam on the 27 percent without talking about the 73 percent of Americans who are also uninsured it comes off as hate and intolerance for immigrants (bigotry).

I have spent years working with legals, illegals, children who were born here but whose parents are illegal. I have never once knowingly been hateful or intolerant of anyone. If for no other reason than I wanted them to like me because maybe they'd help keep me safe if any violence took place, I was 99% of the time helpful and nice. Most of my coworkers were courteous and even downright friendly. Who wants to keep their own BP up all the time? So the generalization that illegals are treated badly is too broad to be correct. I think it's the Legislature making all of the rules, like 6-figure incomes and great pensions in which they are vested after only 2, yes 2, years in Congress that is the abuser.

Point of confusion: The US does not require that we produce ID on demand. We are not required to have or show to authorities anything stating our place of birth, etc.. So how does anyone know anyone is illegally here if "Anyone" doesn't so state or shows some foreign nation birth cert.??????

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Oh, it's bigotry to care about our healthcare system and to worry about the strain it puts on our system? Ah, yes, the old let's just start name calling and not have a real discussion about it.

This is exactly why Hillary lost and Trump is in control now. And no, before anybody starts on that train, I didn't vote for Trump.

Instead of opening up the doors for discussion people simply throw insults. It's exactly what is wrong with this country. That attitude gets you nowhere in life. That attitude is tearing this country apart. I am allowed to have an opinion. Everyone.

Was hooing this site to be different being amongst other educated professionals. Guess it doesn't matter how educated somebody is, they can still resort these tactics.

It is not bigotry to care about our health care system. It may smell like bigotry to some when the blame is placed unfairly on one group. It does not take higher level education or too much common sense to know that it is not possible for undocumented immigrants to be the cause of our health care financial issues. There are millions of pople in this country that can readily take the blame for that. And don't even mention doctors and nurses who participate in the greatest examples of waste and excess on this planet. We do less with more compared to anywhere else in the world and we're still so unhealthy.

Healthy discussion does not start with false premises. It starts with careful consideration of the matter at hand, then a little research (more if needed). I agree we should not appear to be throwing insults, but imagine how undocumented people feel when they're blamed for everything from burdening health care to phantom crimes. Now that might be considered as insults. Passion is good, but must be rational.

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Immigrants as a whole account for what, 14% of the population, and illegal immigrants account for I think 4% of the population?

I do not know if you are quoting legal or illegal immigrants but that [at most] 14% group accounts for 27% of the uninsured? Wow. Not making a good case for yourself there chief.

To be honest I do not personally believe that being uninsured automatically means you are abusing the system. I have known many patients, and even family members, that cash paid for their healthcare. 99.9% of the care they received was non-catastrophic and when paying with cash the hospitals adjust the billing way down. When I worked in high-end healthcare it was really not uncommon for people to be uninsured. Many of these people chose to simply save the money and accrue the returns from their investments rather than pay an insurance company. This was not a common practice but it certainly was not unheard of.

Not making a good case for myself? I am stating facts pulled from the centers of immigration studies, not from what "I think" (as you indicated above). The 27 percent includes illegal and legal immigrants, I am unsure of your expertise with immigrants but it is very easy for them to go into legal vs illegal status based on expiration dates. Although the OP is only addressing undocumented immigrants, lets face it when some mention the word immigrant (especially when the accent is too thick, English less proficient, and certain documents seem to be misplaced). Legality comes to the forefront. Back to the problem of bigotry I was addressing, to be constantly calling out immigrants (undocumented or not) for being uninsured when we have 73% of Americans who are uninsured who also abuse the system is ludicrous. If the real issue is the abuse of the system. Why not speak on all people that abuse the system.

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Specializes in Hospice.

Agreed, stepney - basing one's position on made-up factoids definitely comes across as bigotry, or at least ignorance. IMO, the bigotry comes in with the refusal to look at facts unless they support your personal biases.

I said it before: honest people can disagree on how to approach the very difficult issue of whether and how to deal with the health needs of undocumented immigrants.

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I work 5 mins away from the Mexican border , it is crazy the amount of money that is spent on another country. While we all have to pay are way. all they have to do is go to the border tell the border patrol agents they need help. And boom free everything! I work in maternity we had a pt who has given birth at my hospital five times she had border patrol agents with her and is shackled to the bed after she has her baby she gets deported but not without a free car seat, free epidural, free diapers,formula,bag and clothes. Then they steal the baby blankets on top of it all. This is routine at my hospital they all do it! I would say 90% of our pt come with a border patrol agent it is crazy! Some of them are mean and demanding, they know the drill. My hospital unit has talked about shutting it down . They are in hudge financial trouble so much so that they cut our days and hours. We lost bonuses and raises. It's funny because, if I went to Mexico and claimed I needed emergency care they would say " no dinero no doctor" and let you die!

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I have spent years working with legals, illegals, children who were born here but whose parents are illegal. I have never once knowingly been hateful or intolerant of anyone. If for no other reason than I wanted them to like me because maybe they'd help keep me safe if any violence took place, I was 99% of the time helpful and nice. Most of my coworkers were courteous and even downright friendly. Who wants to keep their own BP up all the time? So the generalization that illegals are treated badly is too broad to be correct. I think it's the Legislature making all of the rules, like 6-figure incomes and great pensions in which they are vested after only 2, yes 2, years in Congress that is the abuser.

Point of confusion: The US does not require that we produce ID on demand. We are not required to have or show to authorities anything stating our place of birth, etc.. So how does anyone know anyone is illegally here if "Anyone" doesn't so state or shows some foreign nation birth cert.??????

So the generalization that illegals are treated badly is too broad to be correct.--That statement makes me think of the times when people say inmates have it made, they get 3 hots and a cot, and everything provided to them free of charge. and if you are thinking of illegal immigrants in that manner. Then YES, they have it made...there are many illegal immigrants who have been raped, underpaid, robbed of pay, black mailed, spent years looking behind their backs d/t immigration status, have children in their country they will never see again who would disagree. Just the fact that they are labeled illegal. i.e criminal, forbidden, unlawful tells you exactly what the American government and many American people think of illegal's and will proudly tell them where they need to go (some comments on this post for example). But hey just like the prisoners who keep offending they must like it, because they stay....right?

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I work 5 mins away from the Mexican border , it is crazy the amount of money that is spent on another country. While we all have to pay are way. all they have to do is go to the border tell the border patrol agents they need help. And boom free everything! I work in maternity we had a pt who has given birth at my hospital five times she had border patrol agents with her and is shackled to the bed after she has her baby she gets deported but not without a free car seat, free epidural, free diapers,formula,bag and clothes. Then they steal the baby blankets on top of it all. This is routine at my hospital they all do it! I would say 90% of our pt come with a border patrol agent it is crazy! Some of them are mean and demanding, they know the drill. My hospital unit has talked about shutting it down . They are in hudge financial trouble so much so that they cut our days and hours. We lost bonuses and raises. It's funny because, if I went to Mexico and claimed I needed emergency care they would say " no dinero no doctor" and let you die!

So when a Mexican woman is in labor and comes to your hospital that is close to the border, what should happen, are you proposing to let her and her unborn child die...no dinero, no doctor?

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So when a Mexican woman is in labor and comes to your hospital that is close to the border, what should happen, are you proposing to let her and her unborn child die...no dinero, no doctor?

Did you even read what I wrote?

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Specializes in Hospice.
Did you even read what I wrote?

I did - and the question is a legitimate one. To rephrase it, what do you think we should do instead?

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I work 5 mins away from the Mexican border , it is crazy the amount of money that is spent on another country. While we all have to pay are way. all they have to do is go to the border tell the border patrol agents they need help. And boom free everything! I work in maternity we had a pt who has given birth at my hospital five times she had border patrol agents with her and is shackled to the bed after she has her baby she gets deported but not without a free car seat, free epidural, free diapers,formula,bag and clothes. Then they steal the baby blankets on top of it all. This is routine at my hospital they all do it! I would say 90% of our pt come with a border patrol agent it is crazy! Some of them are mean and demanding, they know the drill. My hospital unit has talked about shutting it down . They are in hudge financial trouble so much so that they cut our days and hours. We lost bonuses and raises. It's funny because, if I went to Mexico and claimed I needed emergency care they would say " no dinero no doctor" and let you die!

Yajaira21, I understand your frustration, but please look at the bigger picture. You are in a hospital that has a higher concentration of illegals than usual, your hospital is not the beginning and the end of health care abuse. There are people in every hospital that walk away with"free stuff", regardless of financial status. I work 2 jobs, have excellent house-hold income and if you offer me a free clip, I will take it. Also, remember, many "free" things do not come from the hospital. They are given to the hospital by foundations and individuals to be given away. If your hospital did not have illegals, who would the patients be? Would you still have a job?

But I was curious, nurses are ok with women being shakled to beds after giving birth?That's not a good place to work. Another thought, raises and bonuses are not guaranteed. I work hard, but have not received a raise in a few years and we no illegal person issues.

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Did you even read what I wrote?

Of course,

You sound "un pleased" to say the least that people are coming from the border and receiving medical care for free. You then mentioned they received a free car seat-which I thought was needed to protect the safety of the newborn and was mandated by law that the baby can't be released without one even if they wanted to. ---but what do I know. You also dislike the free pain medication-How dare she ask for medication to decrease pain, and she has an attitude and is being mean....No sir, she's not paying, so she shouldn't get it...right? You also spoke of the free diapers, baby food and baby clothes that will last them what 3 days...how dare they take those things to meet essential human needs of a baby? You also went on to state that you didn't get a bonus and received a cut in hours all at the blame of the illegals..for you to know all this for fact you must have to dabble in administrative, billing, and nursing...you handle all of that? Seems like that hospital needs to be shut down, that's too much! Lastly, I think your biggest problem is that you have to pay and they got it for free...and while on the surface I can see the "unfairness". But that's just the surface, I bet a Mexican might argue that its unfair that you were born here and her there. Then you went on to say that in Mexico they would let you die if you had no money, so I asked is that what you are proposing we do to them?

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If Satan himself came in needing burn ointment from him torturing souls in hell I would need to treat him as well as I would treat Jesus Christ.

That being said, everyone should be I.D.'d when they come in. All of us have to have a background check to be nurses, why shouldn't someone looking for treatment (and as the OP pointed out - free service in that example) be held to the same standard? If they are not here legally than let ICE deal with them. The argument that they won't seek treatment is not a valid one for me. You don't get to walk into any service related industry, spend 1000's of dollars knowing you can't/won't pay it back and get to be insulted by the process. The nature of illegal immigration is that these people do not pay income tax; so what they don't pay we all pay in the way of higher taxes and insurance costs. If you think that they should be given legal status fine - right your congressman. But while they are here their very presence is a crime and it should be reported. What the authorities do after that is none of my concern. Obama looked the other way, Trump wants to deport. Wherever you fall on the issue your voice of what happens comes with your vote.

Lastly, there are plenty of people here that are citizens who do the same thing. They are Americans and a debate can be had as to what to do about healthcare. But our financial obligation should not extend to people who are not citizens.

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