Trying to understand difference between LPN and RN practice....

Up2nogood RN, RN · Apr 9, 2010

Since you did more the 50% of the RN program, you could finish with Excelsior.
Your problem is a new issue with many states now. Most states allowed you to sit for your LPN boards after a certain number of RN semesters - but no longer. Sorry you got caught in that. I think NYS (where I live) changed it in 2007.

In WA state you must have an extra 200? Extra hours of clinicals before you can sit for the boards. And I believe finding those clinical hours are all up to the student so if you're not employed anywhere you don't have a pot to **** in. It really sucks being so close to finishing an RN program and have to do that god awful CPNE, yikes.

DaFreak71 · Apr 9, 2010

I live in Washington (right across the border from Oregon). I was 2.5 months shy of graduating as a RN and my better half got an amazing job offer at a hospital here...so we left the South.
Washington let me sit for the NCLEX-PN, passed it, no jobs. CNA's, with a bit more education, can pass meds so LPN's are essentially the "middle guy"--and the middle guy gets cut out lol. Just stretch those RN's a bit more and use CNA's and from a pure profit standpoint, it makes sense to kick LPN's to the curb.
I figured hey...no big deal. I'll just endorse over into Oregon and get a job as a LPN (they still use them). Oregon BON informed me I had to have graduated from a LPN program in order to have a Oregon license. I explained my situation and was told that I'm out of luck. She was super nice about it, even encouraged me to apply and appeal (with attorney) to see if a new precedent could be set lol.
I actually just have to laugh at my own situation because it's so pathetic. Educated as a RN, AM a LPN, would have been better off as CNA with regard to job prospects. It's so funny because I would actually have to go through a CNA program to take a CNA job. Being a LPN doesn't "trump" the CNA certificate.
Oh well...it is what it is. I told my husband "I'm doing in nursing in reverse". Maybe someday when I'm a NP, I'll go get my GED.
Can any of your RN credits transfer? Try Clark in Vancouver, they have programs starting 3x year and they do LPN-RN bridge. There aren't really any LPN opportunities here in Oregon (Portland metro) except LTC. Hospitals aren't hiring them anymore except maybe their MD offices. There are Soooo many LPN and RN programs here that competition is real fierce and hospitals aren't hiring new grads like they were. Plenty of jobs for experienced nurses though. I do know that a home care agency for peds uses LPN's in WA, try PSA if you really are anxious to get your feet wet. Oh and try Salmon Creek in Vancouver, sometimes they have openings for LPN's in clinics. It's Legacy Health System so if you got in there you could always transfer within. Good luck, any ??'s and you can PM me.
Hey thanks for the reply!
I am SO NOT going anywhere near PSA. My husband is a RN at Legacy Salmon Creek (no LPN jobs, not even many RN jobs there) and he has warned me about PSA. He and his co-workers are aghast at the condition of the patients when they get admitted to the hospital. I'm a bit mouthy so I'd have a hard time seeing that kind of neglect and not getting all sassy about it with my co-workers.
Sadly, Clark won't allow nursing credits to transfer. I'm actually in the process of applying to Excelsior--might as well spend my voluminous amounts of free time in school 'eh?
That's the one thing I can't complain about....money. Legacy is really awesome and because of that, we are good financially. I can't really throw a pity party for myself because there are TOO many people that are experienced or are new grads without a job. They are desperate for the money. My heart really goes out to them. My situation sucks, but it sucks in a really weird funny way. Ya know?
So the plan is Excelsior and a job in my favorite place---Portland! At least Oregon doesn't require 200 additional clinical hours like Washington does for Excelsior grads. Nice hearing from a local!

DaFreak71 · Apr 9, 2010

Oh yeah...the CPNE LOL...heard the horror stories. I'm like "Bring it on"! I love a good challenge ; )

Up2nogood RN, RN · Apr 9, 2010

Oh yeah...the CPNE LOL...heard the horror stories. I'm like "Bring it on"! I love a good challenge ; )

I had only worked 2 cases with psa and both were good families so guess I was lucky there. I'm with the other major health system in Portland and was there as a CNA for 10 years and got my RN before the hiring freeze, whew. Both companies are good IMHO and some of our surgeons work at both systems.

The CPNE isn't too difficult, I passed it without having any hospital clinicals. It's more nerve wracking than anything!

silentRN · Apr 9, 2010

Arizona hospitals don't use LPNs. Only see them in LTC facilities.

KateRN1 · Apr 9, 2010

I think it's interesting that so many concentrate on the skills, as if nursing is a task-oriented profession. Nursing is a psychomotor field, requiring the ability to use head and hands at the same time. Multi-tasking at its finest. Most LPN programs are about a year long, an associate degree RN program is 2-3 years (once pre-reqs are completed in many cases). Although I was never an LPN before I earned my nursing degree, I did teach for a few years in an LPN program and I can testify that the amount of material covered is light compared to the RN program and it was very heavy on the hands-on skills.

I actually had an LPN argue with me in my early years that "the only difference between you and me is that you can hang blood products and give IV pushes." As if that whole second year of nursing school was spent learning those two skills. As I've said in other threads, it's not what you do, it's what you know while you're doing it. While LPNs and RNs often complete the same tasks in the same environment, there is a greater body of background knowledge with the RN than there is with the LPN. Yes, many LPNs can work circles around an RN in an task-oriented environment, but that in itself may go to show that the RN does not function in a task-oriented way.

I have no doubt that there are a great many LPNs out there with a phenomenal amount of knowledge to rival any RN. However, that is due to their personal commitment to continuing education and not necessarily related to their formal nursing education. There is a scope of practice for a reason and it's based on educational level and general body of knowledge, not what skills each can perform.

PedsAtHeart, LPN · Apr 9, 2010

in our hospital, the LPN can not do an assessment on a patient. They can take down factual information. Height wt, vita signs, medications. But they can not assess a patient or create a nursing diagnosis or plan of care.
LPN's can pas medications, but can not give IV push meds, can not give the first dose of an antibiotic. They can not run a code. they can not take a verbal order from an MD. they can transcribe orders, but the order must be verified or checked by an RN before it can be carried out.
The LPN's can not hang anything on a central line or PICC line. They can not discontinue a central, picc or arterial line. they can not hang Blood.
I hear all the time at our hospital, the LPN's complaining that they do the brunt of the work, and get the least pay....but when the **** hits the fan, its the RN's ass that is hanging in most cases. the RN oversees the LPN in the professional hospital setting at hour hospital. Even when an LPN messes up, the RN's name also goes on the incident report.
and for that, the RN's aren't paid enough.

That all depends on where you work. In my state the LPN's cannot spike blood nor do the initial assessment, anything else we can do, including IV push meds. We have our own license that we work under so if the **** hits the fans, we are the ones held responsible. But I know in many other states, this is not the case. Some states look at LPN's as nothing more than nursing assistants, I think this is where the defensiveness comes in. I know I personally get very offended when people treat me like I dont know what I am doing JUST because I am not an RN *yet* :) I worked very hard to get these 3 letters behind my name! I have heard from too many times "oh so you arent a REAL nurse" or "oh you're just an LPN" or "so when will you decide to go back and become an RN?"

I love being an LPN, I love what I do. But I refuse to live pay check to pay check anymore so I am continuing on to get my RN. I think my LPN experience will do nothing but help me in the future as an RN. I am lucky to live in a place where there is not a big difference between the RNs and the LPNs.

Personally, I dont think RNs or LPNs are paid nearly enough!! We should be a very HIGH paying profession, but unfortunately we arent! I do agree that RNs should make more than LPNs. I think BOTH need pay raises though!

Anne36, LPN · Apr 9, 2010

I think the difference in education is the main reason Rn would make more. You need about 6-7 more pre-req's + 1 more year of nursing school. That is a lot of effort , they do deserve more money for that.

lovesunsets · Apr 9, 2010

Ok I have yet another question....

Many of you said that a big difference is the education. RNs have more nursing classes, plus pre-reqs. I have an associates degree (general) and I have applied to an LPN program because that's the route I want to go right now. I will probably want to bridge to RN sometime or another.

If I get accepted into this program, do you guys think that having the associates degree would possibly able me to make more, even though I wouldn't be an RN?

Thanks

caliotter3 · Apr 9, 2010

No. An LPN is an LPN. Employers do not care if an LPN has an associate's degree. They will care about your work experience as an LPN.

Cathylady · Apr 9, 2010

Like my dad used to say, "You can be a genius but that just aint good enough because it's all about the sheepskin baby, all about the sheepskin."

(sheepskins, for those of you that aren't familiar with this expression, used to be what universities wrote diploma information on and then awarded it to you at graduation.)

DaFreak71 · Apr 9, 2010

I agree. If I had relied on my nursing program to provide me with ALL the education I needed to understand nursing, I would not be very smart. This is NOT because my program was academically faulty, it's because no program in any discipline can teach you everything. It's like education plus experience isn't enough...you have to desire more knowledge and that can only come from within. A thirst for knowledge...ya know?

Even if each of the states did not have differing rules on scope of practice, looking at the role of RN or LPN through a task based lens is myopic. I did not know this until quite recently, but was surprised to learn that LPN programs do not teach nursing diagnoses. I image that one of the bigger challenges for a LPN going through a RN program is not the physical tasks, but the learning of a "new language". It's just a different approach to learning.

It isn't enough to care. It isn't enough to be intelligent. It isn't enough to have good technical skills or enough to have excellent communication skills. It's the integration of all the above PLUS an open mind to learn more...always. This is true of every person in every profession. My clinical skills are not as good as the average LPN, despite going through all but 2.5 months of a RN program. And I've seen LPN's and even CNA's who's thirst for knowledge outshines many RN's I've encountered. It's the person that counts, not the title. In my opinion!

I have no doubt that there are a great many LPNs out there with a phenomenal amount of knowledge to rival any RN. However, that is due to their personal commitment to continuing education and not necessarily related to their formal nursing education. There is a scope of practice for a reason and it's based on educational level and general body of knowledge, not what skills each can perform.