Tired of EMS thinking they can walk in!

GilaRRT · Jan 9, 2009

They do exist; however, certificate programs are still quite prolific.

flightnurse2b, LPN · Jan 9, 2009

This part of your post jumped out at me..I have actually never seen at any college a Bachelor degree paramedic program. Tons of certificate and associate programs...but have never seen a 4-year.

the school i went to had a 2+2 option for EMS degrees... i stopped @ the AAS level, but they also had a BS in emergency medical services. most of the medics i worked with at the FD and ER were either in the bachelor's program or had completed it already. i didn't know there were still alot of certificate programs around, honestly...

tencat · Jan 9, 2009

I occasionally have to work with a paramedic who is a total #$%$ and his ego makes him dangerous to patients. That being said, I KNOW that not ALL EMTs are like him. In fact I've been an EMT-I many moons ago. An EMTs job is just as important as an RNs job, and it is different.

To original OP: it sounds like 'beating' this 'dead horse' is really not worth your energy and time. If the person in question is truly thinking she is better than an RN and can be one with no problems, then she is in for a surprise and she will get the message the hard way by overestimating herself and making a huge mistake at some point. You are not the EMT/RN police and it is not your place to 'punish' this particular person in question. You are responsible for what YOU do in the workplace, not what others do. Focus on doing your job and natural selection will take care of those that are not doing theirs.

erjunkie8 · Feb 23, 2009

As an RN and EMT, I know that we all must work together as the majority of us do very well. And some of the best ED providers and flight nurses I know are EMT-Ps.
But like in any profession there are doctors who think they are better than all nurses and nurses who think they are better than all CNAs and medics, and so on and so forth and I feel the way you speak of EMTs and EMT-Ps in this thread it seems you are being biased like the above statement.
And quite frankly a paramedic has more autonomy than a nurse does and does not require a doctors presence or input to facilitate interventions like a nurse does. And secondly they are licensed providers in all 50 states.
Also on another note after you ******* me out in the recent peanut gallery thread over something you had no business talking about, I definitely am begining to think you are very absent minded.

I have found that it is very unfortunate that there is so much hostility between nurses and EMS. It seems that it is only in some areas and some of us actually work together.

There are many blogs where people have flown off the handle griping about the job description of nurses vs paramedics/emts. I know what is required of me when I go to work and I would think that others do to. This is a subject that is sore to a lot of people and I guess it is hard for me to understand why there is so much resistance.

The skills taught in the EMS field (in my opinion) are not clearly defined and some nurses are not aware of what EMS is allowed to do.

Some ER's welcome you with hugs and smiles, others don't care becasue they don't have any respect for the competition.

Those who are critical of the other roles just show that they lack confidence and maturity.

I love what you have put here. It is simply stated that we all have our scope of practice special to us. The more some other people stop worrying about what I am doing the better off we all are.

The animosity is just childish. I always think about how I would want my family taken care of in a stressful time.. the more I read here the more I don't understand why bitterness took over caring for patients that need you the most..

Nice Job!! Thank YOU!!

shah · Feb 27, 2009

Arrogance is always the result of ignorance. Those RN's who think they are better than EMT's, Nurse techs, RT's, US Techs, Radiology tecs, you name it, need some more education, and some training in humility.

I would any day trust my life to an EMT (as fare as emergencies are concerned) than to an RN. The reason is, they are definitely better trained within their limited scope of practice to deal with emergencies.

I was an EMT before an RN and we were drilled trillions of time in the niceties of CPR, IV insertion, intubation, splinting, etc. Remember, they successfully operate in the ditch to save lives every day, as doctors in the field. Nurses work in state of the art ER's, under the supervision of doctors.

If you ever find yourself head first in a ditch, pray for an EMT not a nurse.

shah · Feb 27, 2009

MAJOR TRAUMA?.. how do they get to your ER?..... POV?
im gussing it is from ems via ambulance....
just guessing... cause i worked as a medic for many years before i became a nurse..
you should ask your hospital if they allow *ride alongs* or something like that to where you can go work pre-hospital and see what they actually do....
as was stated above... yeah... paramedics have a LOT more autonomy than ER nurses... they know their stuff...
just a word of advice... be very nice to them... they are doing a job just like you...
don't think you are better than them because you are an RN and make more money.... don't EVER think that.....
sorry if i am sounding mean... i don't want to come off as a mean person..
i just take hits on EMS ppl very seriously...

I think in Texas you cannot become a flight nurse unless you have been a paramedic.

Folks, if you cannot give respect to those working alongside of you, do not ever complain about the docs being mean to you. I know that in some teaching hospitals, experienced nurses correct doctors. Some nurses even have to rewrite incorrectly written orders, and the docs have to suck up. Remember, pride comes before a fall.

GilaRRT · Feb 28, 2009

No, you can fly in Texas as an RN without PM credentials. Specific flight programs may have other requirements however.

JDCitizen · Mar 1, 2009

Hmmm years ago (about 28) when I was an EMT the nurses hated us. We as part of the hospital staff had to help staff the ER when they were short. There was the fear we were there to take their jobs...

I went from EMT to Advanced EMT learned all those neat drugs, IV drips and intubation procedures and such.. Got to do all that in the field and in the hospital. We were still paid less than the nurses... Their was still a tendancy to hate us.

Oh by the way 28 years ago in my area LPNs were in the ER the RN was usually reserved for supervisor role... My contact then with an RN was rare.

I crossed over and now I have gone through BSN and MSN....

I still on occasion see nurses talk down to EMTs / Paramedics and see the EMTs / Paramedics talk down to the nurses.. Sometimes its ego, sometimes its stupidty, sometimes its the turf war that still seems to be going on.

llltapp · Mar 8, 2009

Ya know, I've been reading through this thread and it is sad. Emergency medicine is full of strong personalities, and that is needed. The relationship I have with the paramedics who work in the ER as well as those who ride the rigs is very very important. We are a team. When I make the effort to respect them, I receive it back. that relationship also allows me to give constructive criticism when its needed without receiving defensiveness in return. I am humble (until its time not to be) and it seems to build stronger bonds with the guys and gals I depend on, the paramedics. They have my back and I have theirs. Sometimes I'd rather have an experienced paramedic at my side than some of the ER docs. Sometimes I have to educate them like I would a CNA-until they have grown and become competent and confident. Anyone who is so arrogant they have nothing to learn needs to get out of the ER. period.

EllieOhioRN · Mar 8, 2009

We have paramedics that work on our teams in our ER but they are not practicing as medics while working in our ER. They are assigned like a techs position. They do not assess or pass meds even though I am sure they are qualified to do some of that. I think if that ER employs medics to fill an RNs role there might be some legal issues. I think State Licensing requires that license to practice as an RN.

erjunkie8 · Mar 8, 2009

Ya know, I've been reading through this thread and it is sad. Emergency medicine is full of strong personalities, and that is needed. The relationship I have with the paramedics who work in the ER as well as those who ride the rigs is very very important. We are a team. When I make the effort to respect them, I receive it back. that relationship also allows me to give constructive criticism when its needed without receiving defensiveness in return. I am humble (until its time not to be) and it seems to build stronger bonds with the guys and gals I depend on, the paramedics. They have my back and I have theirs. Sometimes I'd rather have an experienced paramedic at my side than some of the ER docs. Sometimes I have to educate them like I would a CNA-until they have grown and become competent and confident. Anyone who is so arrogant they have nothing to learn needs to get out of the ER. period.

I think most of the animosity stems from each role not understanding the purpose of the other. In all actuality the 2 professions (medic & nursing) have very different objectives. Nonetheless, there are paramedics that I would rather have there with me and other times there are nurses I would rather have. I have seen ER doctors ask the paramedic if he can get the tube since his attempts to intubate were not sucessful... We ALL are learning. There will always be "strong" and "not-so-strong" individuals.

You see it like I do. For all of those who tend to think one is better than the other - do not apply to the ER. Without Paramedics and EMT's out there getting the ones that need help (although sometimes it is BS... much different topic) the community would suffer. Just as nurses get better and more experienced with time, the same applies to paramedics. You can not be a weak paramedic... if you are shy about emergency medicine OR too judgemental it defeats the purpose of why you chose that career. Paramedics and nurses need eachother... bad attitude = bad report = bad patient care...

Another thing to consider is gender. (not to jump on the feminist bandwagon) but I have met many paramedics who think that is a man's job. Combined with firefighting they pretty much beat the women up knowing that in all reality most men are physically stronger than women.

There are too many grudges one holds against the other... paramedic vs nurse, male vs female, and even EMT vs Paramedic. I just ask that everyone who reads this remembers the one common denominator... the PATIENT!

Everyday someone in this field who is working learns something new and with that we teach it to someone who is still learning. Teach the ones learning from you how to do it as good as you do...

erjunkie8 · Mar 8, 2009

No, you can fly in Texas as an RN without PM credentials. Specific flight programs may have other requirements however.

I think that in some places it is not a requirement however is preferred. Where I am in FL they do not require the RN's (for flight) to have EMT/PM certification and will hire them but want them to complete the training and sit for the state exams. Ironically enough I know of one nurse who is such an incredible nurse and awesome at every part of nursing have to retake the state medic exam a few times (since RN's can challenge it) and was going to lose his spot on the flight team until it was passed. Not required upon being hired but mandatory to complete.. Every place is so different. I wonder if it was more standard across state lines there would be less confusion.