Tired of EMS thinking they can walk in!

TraumaNurseRN · Dec 21, 2008

oh...
and on a side note....
it is a level one trauma center and we have an *in house* staff of paramedics that work EXACTLY the same job as us nurses...
only difference is they make less money.....
they deserve the same though

That is a shame if they are doing a nurses job they should get the same pay. In my hospital our medis are forced to work as techs....have said this time and time again.....it's a shame, but they won't allow it unless they get their RN....Many do.....love working with them.

TraumaNurseRN · Dec 21, 2008

trauma perhaps what goes around will come around and someday when you're in need of emergency medical services, the EMS responder will remember your attitude and give you the treatment you feel they provide...ya know, unlicensed, uneducated, unprofessional treatment..."oh, you're having a heart attack? i'm sorry i can't do much, i'm just a medic. ya know, a lowly, glorified tech so your heart will just have to give out since assessing would be out of my scope of practice."

ONE MORE TIME: In my state...ems is not allowed to practice in a nursing role within the emergency room or anywhere actually in the hospital. They are required to go to nursing school, graduate and pass the state boards just as any other RN has to do. (I'M NOT THE ONE WHO SAID I COULD WALK INTO A NURSING ROLE BASED ON OBSERVations DURING THEIR TIME SPENT IN THE ER) Nor am I the one who thinks that they are more equipped to function in a RRTs role based on giving a-rxs, intubations, o2 enroute....I also found it insulting when he suggested I live in the backwoods somewhere, where medics can't work in the same capacity as an RN. I don't make the rules......but our rules are medics cannot practice nursing without a license to do so. And no.....in my state...techs., medics, or lpns are not licensed to assess patients. It's not that I don't think they can do it....it's because they are not licensed to do it....and yes my hospital and state sys it's above your scope of practice...

HappyPediRN · Dec 22, 2008

Unless you live under a rock on another planet what you say is incorrect. Of course a medic can assess. If they couldn't then they would not know to intubate, stick in an IV, do an EKG, or push the correct drugs. I notice you're backpeddling from the attitude in your original post. Sucky attitude, by the way.

Medic15251 · Dec 22, 2008

Traumanurse let me refresh your memory on what was said in the other thread. I never said that a paramedic is qualified to function as an rrt. I said:

today's medics are being taught how to do many of the things RT's do. Intubations, RSI's, surgical airways, end tital co2 capnography, vent settings, CPAP and BiPAP administration, breathing treatments, etc.

All I said is that there is some overlap in the skills and care both professions provide.

I also didn't say that a pm is qualified to work as a nurse either. Emergency nursing is one very small part of nursing. Emergency training is solely what a pm is focused on in pm school though. With that being said I do think that a pm could be transitioned to working in a hospital in an ed. I think if they were given an appropriate orientation and additional classes through the hospital they could function in a role similar to that of an rn in the ed only.

In my state this is being done. It's one answer to a nursing shortage in the emergency department. Here medics are allowed to take pt's, complete an assessment, triage, do education, give the same meds rn's give, and do all of the same skils they are taught to do in school. This differs slightly between different facilities.

I also never said you were from the backwoods. I would encourage you to go back and actually read my posts. I said I was glad I didn't live in your backwards state. You mentioned that pm's in your state can't even hang drips in the field. Given the training that a pm goes through this does in fact seem backwards to me. If a pm is trained on how to deliver a specific type of care then is not able to this seems like backwards logic that would lower the level of care a pt would receive.

I am not trying to rehash what was said in another thread. I just don't accept your half hearted apology with misrepresented statements.

GilaRRT · Dec 22, 2008

ROTFL, Trauma, you are killing me. Time to let this one go. The novelty of PM versus RN wore of many threads ago.

Iam46yearsold · Dec 22, 2008

I do find TraumaNurseRN amusing in his platitudes. I still think we should all work together

Kumbaya

Hilinenursegrl · Dec 22, 2008

Ok there was a reason that staff closed this post in the first place. I believe somewhere in here Trauma made a comment about Medic beating a dead horse, but it was Trauma that started this thread, again. I for one have more to do than to watch round 2, I wish you all well.

Looking4Seaglass · Dec 22, 2008

As an RN in the ER, we too have medics working as techs. I would never assume to walk into a medic's role with my RNBSN nor should a medic be able to walk into RN. My states guidelines do not allow it either. I worked hard for my license. It's kind of like, sure I know how to do accounting for my husband's business but I could not legally call myself an accountant or work for an accounting firm. I know how to fix my leaky faucet but would never say I am a plumber or work as a plumber. I think you came down alittle to hard on the OP. Reading the closed post I saw where the medic presumed to walk right in to the ED and function just as an RN. Medics have their honorable role and I love working with them. But, I think I would have a problem with someone who hasn't been licensed to practice in nursing allowed to do so because of a shortage. There are programs out there that enable anyone with a bachelors degree to do one year access programs to sit for licensure in our state. At first many of us had issue with that.....but I think it's a good idea myself. As long as they pass licensure exams.....more power to them. But until then, I think it might be risky. BTW: I am new to the site, love it.....Go Nurses!!

Looking4Seaglass · Dec 22, 2008

Unless you live under a rock on another planet what you say is incorrect. Of course a medic can assess. If they couldn't then they would not know to intubate, stick in an IV, do an EKG, or push the correct drugs. I notice you're backpeddling from the attitude in your original post. Sucky attitude, by the way.

I think if you read the post. This Traumanursern meant and said they are not allowed to assess in their ER. Of course they assess outside of the hospital. That was not her/his point, inside they are not allowed due to state guidelines.

Iam46yearsold · Dec 22, 2008

Assessing is a fact of life. We walk into a pts room. All our assessment instincts are on. Is the pt breathing, talking on the cell. Whatever that is assessing. Can they chart an assessment , probably not. But I have no problem with them assessing a problem and letting me know about so I can follow up on it. it is all teamwork and respect.

Looking4Seaglass · Dec 22, 2008

Assessing is a fact of life. We walk into a pts room. All our assessment instincts are on. Is the pt breathing, talking on the cell. Whatever that is assessing. Can they chart an assessment , probably not. But I have no problem with them assessing a problem and letting me know about so I can follow up on it. it is all teamwork and respect.

Yes assessing is a fat of life, but they are not legally able to then chart that assessment in the medical record. I have no problem either with anyone telling me something is wrong with my patient. I always do my own assessments anyway because they are not legally licensed to do so in my state, nor are lpns. Our assessments tend to be more involved than breathing,talking on phone, etc. though.

ThrowEdNurse, BSN, RN · Dec 23, 2008

One of the biggest annoyances to me is that NO ONE understands what nurses do but other nurses. Even the techs and MDs we work with daily occassionally make it obvious that they don't understand the scope of our practice. Speak with a new nurse who has teched for years in the ED and finally graduates. 6 months into the role of RN, attitudes certainly change.

That said, we are all on the same team and everyone has an important and vital role. We are not the enemies....the doctors are! ha-ha just joking. The pts are the real enemies.....