This one is a liability! What should I do?

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I've got a mess on my hands and to be quite honest I don't have the time or the patience to deal with this. Help!

I have a classmate that is struggling...we will call him Bob.

Bob started having trouble last year. Seems there are problems with his spouse and home in general. I've provided moral support and general counsel and Bob is coming along.

I've always suspected that Bob had some other issues and last week my suspicions were confirmed. Each time Bob has a crisis he calls me from the local bar to report what terrible things have been happening to him. I figured these were just remote instances. Recently I've been picking up a hint of alchol on Bob's breath...fruity, acetone breath...It's frequent now.

Long story short...Bob's got a chemical dependancy and is at risk for flunking out this semester. The professors are looking to me to provide support but they are unaware of his condition.

I personally think Bob is a liability. I've offered help but he seems to have an answer for everything...and "everyone else" seems to be the problem according to Bob.

I hate to sound selfish but I don't have the time or the resources to care for someone who is out the ruin their life. I don't think Bob should be caring for small animals let alone people.

I am one for being straight forward and have thought about just telling him to quit...he's bringing a lot of people down...constant negativity, self absorbed. I mean here I am reaching out to find help for him and Bob is still recovering from a two day binder that he's been on. Animals smother the ones they think won't make it...right? Is this an option?

Help!

Specializes in med/surg, telemetry, IV therapy, mgmt.

i re-read your original post again and posted another answer. i don't think you've had time to read it yet. i got the impression that bob is probably someone that you liked but as you are discovering his substance abuse and the path of destruction that it is leading him down you want to disengage from him and it. am i wrong? that is perfectly natural and i would want to do the same. i think what you are asking is how to do this. sometimes it is hard to just turn our backs on someone we have developed a relationship with. am i assessing your question correctly?

and just curious...have you ever had any problems with alcohol?

no, but i worked on a detox unit and was trained to work with patients who were substance abusers.

whats your experience with al-non?

al-anon is for the friends and relatives of substance abusers. it is to help them cope with the person who abuses. aa and other organizations are for the abuser.

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Specializes in ER, PACU, Med-Surg, Hospice, LTC.
I would never, ever say anything about my classmates that could put their nursing future at risk...and just because I THINK I know what the situation is...unless I KNOW then I need to keep my mouth shut.

Absolutely!!

If a person decides to get involved with reporting something that they only speculate and "think", they better be ready to fight because the person 'innocent until proven guilty' could very easily turn around and accuse them of slander or defemation of character. Accusing someone of substance abuse if very serious in the Nursing profession.

"Slander is a spoken defamation.

Defemation or "defamation of character," is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation."

Defemation is taken very seriously. There are attorneys who specialize in defamation lawsuits.

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The difference I see, is that the OP never stated that the alcohol on the breath was at clinicals.

Now, had the OP stated that, then I would 190% agree with you.

However, it appears that it's limited to classes, and just because someone has alcohol on their breath during class doesn't mean that they are legally impaired for driving.

I am one of those people that if I have a single glass of wine the night before, you can smell it on me the next day...no matter how much teeth brushing, mouthwash, etc.

That is the #1 reason of why I don't even drink that the day before clinicals b/c I don't want someone spreading rumors on me in addition to the fact that I don't want anyone questioning whether I am "ok" to be there or not...not to mention it's unprofessional.

I see more presumptions here...

Did you consider just taking my assessment for face value? The guy is a drunk...thats it! Why so defensive? Why? Is this so hard to believe?

Do I need to itemize my facts?

What does "alcohol on your breath" and the "legal driving limit" have to do with the price of tea in China?

Listen...if you drink and come to work with "alcohol on your breath" to me this means its still in your system. Anyone want to scientifically disprove this?

No one -- NO ONE belongs in a healthcare setting with this kind of condition.

Whether you are binge drinking or a frequent flyer there are physical manifestations that will affect performace REGARDLESS of "legal limits".

If there is a hint of alcohol in your system then you are impaired...an IMPAIRED NURSE. Hello?

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Absolutely!!

If a person decides to get involved with reporting something that they only speculate and "think", they better be ready to fight because the person 'innocent until proven guilty' could very easily turn around and accuse them of slander or defemation of character. Accusing someone of substance abuse if very serious in the Nursing profession.

"Slander is a spoken defamation.

Defemation or "defamation of character," is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation."

Defemation is taken very seriously. There are attorneys who specialize in defamation lawsuits.

Great defintion. I particulary like the bold print...and I agree.

So how did we get from a fact based assessment and my opinon based on these facts to slander? Are you an attorney that specializes in defamation lawsuits?

I've got objective data from Bob.

I've got witnesses.

Do you want to hold a trial?

This thread is not about slander or whatever cause you are for. This is about a person that has a history of consuming lots of alcohol, frequently. I somehow got in the middle of his problems and now want out. You can call it whatever you want but this person could end up taking care of one of your family members. I suppose I could change my number and hope this all works out but then that would be irresponsible of me.

What would you do? Do you have any constructive advice, aside from the legal definitions?

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My opinion of the use of alcohol is this...

One should not drink the day before work, clinical or any other event the requires 100% of your brain.

Call me a cop but if I can smell it on your breath the day after then you've had too much the night before. More important if I can smell it so can the patients...you know exactly what I am talking about here...NOT alcohol on breath but the DAY AFTER. Couple that with a 10 year pack a day habit and it's enough to make me vomit.

This behavior does not belong in healthcare...there! I said it. If you want to hit the sauce, stay home... Period.

Ok buddy, your inexperience has shown through in this post.

Did I say I showed up to class if I had something to drink the day before? Did I say I showed up to clinical if I had something to drink the day before?

See, this is your entire problem....you don't know when you need stay out of it and when you are drawing conclusions.

YOU ARE NOT A NURSE, you are NOT a substance abuse counselor, therefore, you cannot diagnose that someone is an alcoholic and it is not your job to claim that you "know" that someone is an alcoholic to the faculty of a nursing department.

You spent quite a bit of time writing in here to convince everyone of 'how iimportant' you are and how "you are the poster child of this operation" and how "all of the other students" look to you for support.

Personally? I think this is something that you created in your own head....have you had psych nursing yet? Studied about something called grandiose illusions?

I think that is you...there is something WRONG with someone that really and truly believes that you are PERSONALLY responsible for a classmate's actions.

Like Daytonite has said....you have been given tons of advice on here but don't want to take any of it.

If that is the case, then like she said, you need as much help as Bob does.

I also find it really, really peculiar that Bob calls YOU and no one else in his life or family....really, really strange. I can't decide which is stranger, the fact that he calls or the fact that you actually answer the phone.

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Specializes in ER, PACU, Med-Surg, Hospice, LTC.
Do you want to hold a trial?

No, but Bob might.

This thread is not about slander or whatever cause you are for. This is about a person that has a history of consuming lots of alcohol, frequently. I somehow got in the middle of his problems and now want out. You can call it whatever you want but this person could end up taking care of one of your family members. I suppose I could change my number and hope this all works out but then that would be irresponsible of me.

What would you do? Do you have any constructive advice, aside from the legal definitions?

It's all about slander. You only think something because you think what you smell is booze.

My constructive advise would be as the others had mentioned. Get involved with Al-Anon.

Heck, you even mentioned in another post that this is out of your realm. Why are you taking on something that you have no training or experience in dealing with?

I was only trying to be helpful. You post here for advice, I offered it and you get defensive.

I think you already know what you want to do.

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"Slander is a spoken defamation.

Defemation or "defamation of character," is spoken or written words that falsely and negatively reflect on a living person's reputation."

Defemation is taken very seriously. There are attorneys who specialize in defamation lawsuits.

There are also attorneys that specialize in malpractice...I have friends in this profession.

I believe people who are party to an event such as this and choose to ignore it are considered "ACCESSORIES" in the event of a malpractice.

As per the attorney: "As an accessory to a negligible act you are held accountable as if you performed the negligent act."

This means that if Drunk Bob, RN comes to work for 6 months with the smell of alcohol on his breath and you smell it, then you are responsible for reporting it. If one of Drunk Bob's patients dies on his shift and he is charged with murder, you can be charged as an "Accessory to Murder". Why? Because you were aware of Bob's condition and did nothing.

Test me here. I challenge you to contact an attorney.

You ignore something like this...go ahead. Then you can give your definition of "Slander" to a jury of your peers and explain why you didn't report what you saw.

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Dr.Nurse2b, I don't understand why you posted. You are seemingly furious at those who disagree with you, which leds me to believe that you didn't really want input on what to do but support for what you had already decided.

No fair.

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Do you still think I'm being too judgmental here? I am 100% certain that what I smell on Bob's is "morning after breath"..

Yes, I sure do. Mainly because you are not a nurse...that's why. You are not a chemical dependency counselor, that is another reason. When you have passed state boards and have the designation after your name, then you STILL can't make that determination b/c you are no licensed to make a diagnosis of this type.

With someone that claims to have a 3.9 and is the most important person that their nursing school has ever had in their entire history, I would think that you knew that.

ONE incident does not equal dependency.

I also think you are lying about a ton of the information you have been given...you want to know why?

After someone has been convicted of multiple DUI's, you aren't going to be able to sit for NCLEX, as this will show up on the criminal record. A facility is also not going to permit you to show up on site with such a record.

You are also 190% correct that if you can smell alcohol on someone, that they are impaired. I would like you to POST YOUR SOURCE of where that is true.

You aren't going to have to worry about "having a unit" if you keep this up. You'll never stay 3 months on the job because you have no decision making ability....anyone else with this situation would have SIMPLY, stopped taking Bob's phone calls.

It really and truly is that simple...the rest is none of your beezwax.

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Specializes in ER, PACU, Med-Surg, Hospice, LTC.
This means that if Drunk Bob, RN comes to work for 6 months with the smell of alcohol on his breath and you smell it, then you are responsible for reporting it. If one of Drunk Bob's patients dies on his shift and he is charged with murder, you can be charged as an "Accessory to Murder". Why? Because you were aware of Bob's condition and did nothing.

Then you just answered your own question.

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There are also attorneys that specialize in malpractice...I have friends in this profession.

I believe people who are party to an event such as this and choose to ignore it are considered "ACCESSORIES" in the event of a malpractice.

As per the attorney: "As an accessory to a negligible act you are held accountable as if you performed the negligent act."

This means that if Drunk Bob, RN comes to work for 6 months with the smell of alcohol on his breath and you smell it, then you are responsible for reporting it. If one of Drunk Bob's patients dies on his shift and he is charged with murder, you can be charged as an "Accessory to Murder". Why? Because you were aware of Bob's condition and did nothing.

Test me here. I challenge you to contact an attorney.

You ignore something like this...go ahead. Then you can give your definition of "Slander" to a jury of your peers and explain why you didn't report what you saw.

I just love how you are trying to "educate" nurses on this board who have been in the profession for 10, 20, 30 years when you aren't even a nurse at all.

You are a student...and I really, really think you are forgetting this.

We started off with a problem of Bob having ONE major binge drinking episode, and all the sudden, you now have Bob working 6 months in a hospital putting patients at risk, filing lawsuits, contacting attorney's etc.

Do you really not understand how out of control you sound?

EVEN YOU DID NOT STATE that Bob showed up to clinicals smelling of alcohol.

How he shows up for class...is none of your business.

You are really and truly flipping out over what is a simple cure...stop taking Bob's phone calls and keep things to yourself.

Unless he shows up to CLINICAL smelling of alcohol...if anyone can sue anyone for slander...it will be Bob suing you..for accusing him of being an alcoholic...especially if it damages his reputation at school and he gets a physician to certify that HE IS NOT.

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No, but Bob might.

It's all about slander. You only think something because you think what you smell is booze.

My constructive advise would be as the others had mentioned. Get involved with Al-Anon.

Heck, you even mentioned in another post that this is out of your realm. Why are you taking on something that you have no training or experience in dealing with?

I was only trying to be helpful. You post here for advice, I offered it and you get defensive.

I think you already know what you want to do.

Offer advice or your definition of alcoholism and slander?

I think you're only reading what you want to read here...

What I cannot understand is how anyone could suggest Al-Anon

I don't know this person from Adam. I go to school with him. I was asked to provide support to struggling students. Now I'm the one with the problem?

Can you at least share your level of education because I am having trouble understanding where you're coming from.

I am balancing between my moral repsonsibility to the community and healthcare ... and my fading feelings for a "school mate" with a drinking problem. I suppose I could be sued for worse things...calling a drunk a drunk. Well rest assured...I don't think Bob has enough money to hire an attorney to take me out...besides, he'd have to quit drinking long enough to have anyone take him seriously. Bottom line...Bob should not be a nurse...thats my call.

You're writting as if I'm attacking you...what's up? I'm not the only one that see's Bob this way...I just happen to be the one with the whistle.

Your recommendation makes no sense...Al-Anon based on what? Thats your advice for a nursing student that is drinking like a fish, having problems in class and is a basic mess...your solution is to send the person who is trying to help them to Al-Anon? Do I understand you correctly?

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