Of course the popular media and thinking may disagree but...
I actually heard that from a Hospital CEO and it took me a while to realize he was right, but the complete thought is not finished.
There is no nursing shortage! There is only a shortage of nurses that are willing to put up with the crap,BS, sometimes lousy pay, and eternal vindictive oversight from lousy management.
Check out some ANA or goverment statistics about how many NON-practicing RN's there are today. Thousands! Ask yourself why they are not practicing.
Ever seen management use a nurse as a scapegoat instaed of facing problems?
Forget the pay for a minute what about scheduling? I've negotiated contracts for staff and/or travel where I've offered to work EVERY weekend if only I could get consecutive work days or offered to work complete coverage by working opposite another employee and both of us agreeing to work mandatory overtime so we could work 7/7.
Responses I've had include:
MGR:but day shift likes their schedule
ME: but we work nights
MGR: but days likes the two on two off etc,and thats the way the schedule always works
ME: but we work nights, it doesn't matter, as long as a nurse follows
MGR: of course it matters, then nights would have a different schedule than days.
ME: (in my puny brain) How do I explain this to a brick?
or lately I've heard:
You'll work the schedule we tell you when we tell you and you don't tell us what you want. Your schedule is flexible for our needs.
The places I work seem to be understaffed by their own causing and frankly, sometimes it is just the money.
The shortage is a figment of big hospital corporations and special interests to drive more people into the profession and to justify the importation of more nurses from other countries.
Yes there is a demand for nurses, which makes many nurses able to exact some accomodation from their job, some pay raises and some say in how the workplace runs. A demand for staff means nurses get treated better and have opportunity.
If there was a real shortage, employers would be looking how to encourage nurses to stay in the profession or return to it.
If there was a real shortage - some places just could not run or more places would work with you.
I like my work, and I am paid as well as I can negotiate. I just think the hype of a shortage is overblown.
Just think of the opposite - how would your employer really act if they could pick and choose and REALLY not care if they made you happy.
How can someone who is a nurse not know what an INR is. I am an LPN and we learned that early in our program. I would not want someone like that taking care of my family or myself. However, it is the new sad reality.
Specializes in Hospital, Foot Nurse, NRSNG Educator.
Ok, had to jump on the bandwagon... Nursing shortage ??? I am doubtful..... As a nurse (A VERY GOOD NURSE, in good standing, no issues or talking to's EVER, always reliable, and great recommendations!),
Yes proud of my accomplishments. I have worked in a vast variety of nursing areas....both the U.S. and Canadian health care system, it is the same either way. I have held the Casual, or Part time positions for 20yrs +, I like it, it worked with schedules for raising our family. I have always offered my weekends, evenings, holidays usually, sometimes not the holidays, since giving up so much of the rest of the "normal" family time. Weekend after weekend. My prerogative, I am willing to be "on call" and wait for that shift, and hopefully shift differential too ( couple of dollars), AND.... I have forfeited paidvacation, sick time, pension, and benefits very willingly, to have that flexibility to cover our NEED. I had the luxury of health coverage through hubby, or, in Canada it is not an issue quite the same. ( and there ARE issues on both sides too)
BUT...
have heard complaints from co-workers, since I was maybe not available on an occasional Thanksgiving or Christmas, now and then. As our children got older , I offered things to "fit the needs". Now they are grown, and I still LOVE and LIVE for nursing. (After my family of course) but needs change. And so does flexibility. I am 50, and have more availability to offer now.
The funny part is..... in this hospital system, you need " seniority hours" hahahahha, to get that FT job, How can I get those to accumulate, at a "casual hrs" work week....
and yet not called as often as some . (we have a staff of stressed and confused "Schedulers" that do a few hosp's in our chain, its a mess)
people have worked many doubles, and full timers doing over time, (Hmmmm, there goes the budget.... how much $$ do they dish out for that ?????
and yet, there have been times, I have not recieved an offer for the shift, I am not one to complain so ....I don't go to unions to "Greive" (we do have one)and its my own fault, I don't stand up for myself regarding this, and hate to get others in trouble..... and we can live with it, we always set up our lifestyle to fit our income. WE ALWAYS JUGGLE, we're good at it, but that does, and has frustrated me at times. I have offered to go to other hosp's in our chain, but they don't want me to do that, (could loose me to them, like has happened with many other nurses )
Or....
The other thing is,.. they say,we have no FT positions open right now (as usual),... and since not getting the needed amt of hours some weeks, (and almost full time other weeks with call ins or vacations to fill) I fill in with other jobs, (never afraid of hard work ) but because of that , a scheduling issue can arise. "ROCK AND A HARD PLACE" They will of course try to call me in on a day that I am scheduled at the "other job". The next shift I work, I will often hear "well, where have you been ???" ggrrrr...
There are nurses I know that are in the same boat, we have even suggested the possibility,or trail of job sharing, but then there is often no "FT" position available. OF COURSE.
Sorry for the length, I am loving what I am doing now, and I guess it was "meant to be" for me overall, "teaching in the health care field" and so I don't worry about this as much now, but in sending students out to the "real world" I know this to be an issue, they will encounter......
and every time I hear about our NURSING SHORTAGES...... I hisssssss considering the number of days I havent' been called, and am HOME.
I am a new grad who is having trouble finding a job. I have been told that our area has been flooded with new grads. although, most hospitals are short staffed, I went to an interview yesterday and the ER was short 5 nurses, not to mention the rest of the hospital. but they are not hiring at this time. Maybe, if they staff their hospital correctly nurses would not get burnt out so quickly. Just my thought. Got to go find a job.
Also, there are THOUSANDS of people who WANT to be nurses, but are turned away from programs every year......so there are NURSING PROGRAM shortages as well (which I'm sure we are all very aware of) No one really needs any enticing to become a nurse....we just need more programs/bigger programs to accommodate all those turned away every year....
I mean i understand there are a lot of nurses that don't practice, but have you taken into account the coming shift in demographics in the next 10-15 years? A lot more people are going to need nursing care and health care in general as a huge part of our population ages. Im also just a nursing student whos putting a lot of money/time into education so im hoping the jobs are going to be there when I graduate.
One issue mentioned was new grads. Sometimes hospitals will hire new grads and train them but, many hospitals can not deal with the time and expense it takes to hire a new grad and need experienced nurses in those roles. I do hire new grads in LTC but, many have the "ideal" of working in a hospital and don't want to work in LTC or after I have spent $$$ getting them through orientation... they decide that nursing is not what they thought it was and quit.
The other issue mentioned was waiting lists for schools. This will probably get worse as there are not enough MSN nurses out there willing to teach. I also think they need to stop rushing them through and increase the paasing requirements for the boards as the last few years, the newer nurses are not coming into the workforce prepared with the general knowledge they need.
I whole heartedly agree!! I have thought for a very long time that the current nursing situation is due solely to the nursing education programs. I'll admit, I am partial to diploma nursing programs - but for good reason. What other professions do you graduate from school, and take your first job and have to have orientation and precepting to prove you know what you are doing? Doesn't your license prove that you have the basic capabilities to perform the skills necessary in your profession?
But, again - when a BSN grad (sorry, but it's true) takes their first shift on the unit, do they really know what they are doing? I think this is what frustrates so many new grads, and they figure since they do not know enough to work on the floor, they go back to school for their Masters, only to be hired for management positions, and they still don't have the clinical competencies to run a unit. So then they start teaching at the nursing school programs and it is a vicious cycle.
If the BSN programs were actually teaching what is needed to walk right into a job, hospitals would spend far less money on orientation and precepting, only to lose these new hires when they are unable to fulfill the expectations.
Another problem is there are so many more opportunities available to people with a 4 year degree that have better hours and better pay so why would someone want to work for an hourly wage, nights, weekends and holidays after 4 years of school? When will this profession begin to pay annual salaries for floor nurses?
I think the nursing programs should go back to the concept of the diploma programs where you start clinical experience on week 3 of class - not year 3.
You can add me to the statistic of "non-working" RN!
I am a Filipino nurse working my way to the US because a beginning nurse here in the Philippines earns only about a hundred dollars a month. We're told that there is a nursing shortage in the US. So, if what you're telling is true then we've been duped.
We are also told that the staffing in most US hospitals is very ideal. A nurse cares for a maximum of 5 patients. Here, a nurse cares for 20 or more patients in a shift.
I've easily hurdled the CGFNS, NCLEX-RN and IELTS exams required for foreign nurses but with what you're telling I think shouldn't have taken those exams at all. Anyway, I'll have to prove it myself. I guess Filipinos can easily take the challenge of being overworked and underpaid but of course we do know how to assert our rights when worst comes to worst.
I am hoping for the best.
I guess you know that it is very variable: the pay, the kinds of work, the pt load.
A friend just sent me an article about Japanese hospitals seeking foreign nurses. Do you know anyone who is trying for that?
I whole heartedly agree!! I have thought for a very long time that the current nursing situation is due solely to the nursing education programs. I'll admit, I am partial to diploma nursing programs - but for good reason. What other professions do you graduate from school, and take your first job and have to have orientation and precepting to prove you know what you are doing? Doesn't your license prove that you have the basic capabilities to perform the skills necessary in your profession?
But, again - when a BSN grad (sorry, but it's true) takes their first shift on the unit, do they really know what they are doing? I think this is what frustrates so many new grads, and they figure since they do not know enough to work on the floor, they go back to school for their Masters, only to be hired for management positions, and they still don't have the clinical competencies to run a unit. So then they start teaching at the nursing school programs and it is a vicious cycle.
If the BSN programs were actually teaching what is needed to walk right into a job, hospitals would spend far less money on orientation and precepting, only to lose these new hires when they are unable to fulfill the expectations.
Another problem is there are so many more opportunities available to people with a 4 year degree that have better hours and better pay so why would someone want to work for an hourly wage, nights, weekends and holidays after 4 years of school? When will this profession begin to pay annual salaries for floor nurses?
I think the nursing programs should go back to the concept of the diploma programs where you start clinical experience on week 3 of class - not year 3.
You can add me to the statistic of "non-working" RN!
What new grad, diploma, ADN, or BSN, really knows what they are doing the first day on the floor? Even in a diploma program, a new grad going into a specialized setting like the ER or ICU is still not going to know what to do on their first day. Wouldn't you agree that nursing and health care has changed drastically since the days of diploma programs? Do you really believe that these grads could hit the floor functioning at the level of an experienced nurse?
No college degree completely prepares a graduate for the "real world". The purpose of a degree is to provide the foundation for a career, not just a job. And I believe the best preparation for that is a four-year university degree, so that a graduate can get a well-rounded education that can be applied to multiple health care settings. My BSN program did start clinicals on week two and I felt very prepared for my first job. I still was nervous and didn't know everything about ER nursing, but I knew the basics and that was what was important. Anyone can be taught to put in an IV or put down an NG tube. What is more difficult is the critical thinking skills behind the tasks.
Lots of other health professionals go through periods of orientation and precepting before being expected to perform alone. Lot of professions period do this. My husband, an engineer, went through an orientation that lasted for TWO years in his first job.
I don't feel it's fair that you are blaming the nursing shortage on BSN programs. ADN programs are the ones that are pumping out new grads every two years and creating the revolving door for which hospitals take advantage of.
Before anyone gets upset, I am not blaming the nursing shortage on ADN programs. I think it is much more complex than that. One of the biggest reasons is the shortage of nursing educators.
But I do believe that BSN programs produce students who may be more committed to the profession because it is a lot easier to say, "Oh well, I only wasted two years" rather than four. BSN grads may be more willing to try to make nursing work for them and to advocate for change for the profession. This is a generalization and I'm just stating my opinions. Also, many others have successfully advanced their profession by regulating the number of graduates that are produced, even in times of shortages (pharmacists, physical therapists, physicians, etc.).
No college degree completely prepares a graduate for the "real world". The purpose of a degree is to provide the foundation for a career, not just a job. And I believe the best preparation for that is a four-year university degree, so that a graduate can get a well-rounded education that can be applied to multiple health care settings. My BSN program did start clinicals on week two and I felt very prepared for my first job. I still was nervous and didn't know everything about ER nursing, but I knew the basics and that was what was important. Anyone can be taught to put in an IV or put down an NG tube. What is more difficult is the critical thinking skills behind the tasks.
Very true. I have a bachelors degree in an unrelated field and when I went to work, my major had nothing at all to do with my job. I had to learn the skills on the job. But what I did learn was to read, write, and think critically. I didn't go to college for a vocation and I love my liberal arts education because it taught me a great deal about many different fields, about living a good life, and about thinking and analyzing things in a different way. This may be different for majors like accounting, finance, etc. But even they require broad liberal arts classes (at good institutions anyway).
Isn't there a Philippines' nursing association and if so, why not?
Maybe foreign nurses should start working in their own countries, improving their own conditions. Healthcare in the Philippines is notoriously poor, nurses poorly paid and with seriously dangerous ratios.
Why are YOU not attempting to correct those conditions in your country, especially if you want to live in your later years there.
You ask us to live up to your expectations of us, so you can come here and work safely and earn a good living.....but why are you not doing this in your own country?
It is easy to tell us what WE should be doing....what about what you should be doing to elevate nursing in your own home?
You know very well that healthcare is also affected by the country's economy. I don't think I could magically elevate the Philippine economy.
America is a superpower ;therefore, it is expected to have the best of things in all aspects and when its economy suffers, the poorer countries are dragged along.
The only thing I can do as a nurse and as a citizen here is to be very conscientious about the care I give to my patients. Doing my assessment well, giving the proper meds on time, taking time to listen to my client etc. I go to extents of spending much time on the bed side just to make sure that my patient is safe and comfortable. On my day off and if I have time to spare at work, I spend much time trying to study my patient's cases especially if it's my first time to come across that problem. That is my simple way of elevating the nursing practice here in the Philippines. I believe a lot of filipino nurses do that.
As I've said in my earlier posts, if Americans won't let me work in their country I am just as happy to be working as a nurse here and as you mentioned try to make my nursing care better and more effective.
I accept, there is no nursing shortage back there and anywhere in the world because some just don't like to be nurses anymore. They're fed up, tired, etc... however I am not yet, but maybe someday I will be too or maybe never will. Who knows.
Am young, full of spirit and proud to say globally competitive. I have much to learn and yearn for more. I am motivated to work anywhere and everywhere in the best and worst of conditions and no one can stop that. Bring me to the more devastated parts of the world and I can work and survive as a nurse. So, World here I come. :redbeathe:bow:
FWIW. Do yout think it's way off base?
:redbeathe:bow: 
linzz
931 Posts
How can someone who is a nurse not know what an INR is. I am an LPN and we learned that early in our program. I would not want someone like that taking care of my family or myself. However, it is the new sad reality.